Strengths On Fire

Sarah Collins (00:01.388)
Well, it's a good day, Mr. Bill Dippel How are you doing?

Bill Dippel (00:05.204)
It's a it's a early day for me. I I got up this morning and went and got a haircut it like way earlier than I should have.

Sarah Collins (00:11.31)
Mmm.

When you say early, give us an idea of what's early to you.

Bill Dippel (00:18.178)
Let's not let you know, let's not get too creative here. Like I I wake up, I wake up pretty early. Right. I start rolling out at like five, six, kind of get moving. Right. But I don't I'm not a morning guy. Like I don't want to socialize and I don't want to be around stuff and people. And so last night, my guy had to cancel last minute. He said, hey, can you be? Yeah. And he was like, can you be first first tomorrow morning at seven thirty?

Sarah Collins (00:22.052)
Come on.

Sarah Collins (00:28.151)
Okay.

Sarah Collins (00:42.126)
Your haircut guy? Okay.

Bill Dippel (00:47.95)
I'm like, sure, you I don't mind. again, I don't want to roll in. Thank you. All right.

Sarah Collins (00:51.244)
Okay, 7.30 for a haircut is early. I will give that to you. I thought you were gonna say like nine and I was gonna be like, dude, I have done a marathon before 9 a.m. and not an actual marathon, just like a life of a mother marathon. So you win, win, 7.30 for a haircut. I'm gonna give it to you. That's pretty early.

Bill Dippel (00:59.438)
Hahaha!

I agree.

Bill Dippel (01:09.056)
It was pretty early. had a moment. And I'm guessing you and I joked about this. Haircuts between you and I are very different processes, right? I I only have to put up with it for 20, 25 minutes and then, you know, and I get good chat with a guy and it's fun. You know, your your routine, I assume, is a much more extended, you know, so I'm. I get it.

Sarah Collins (01:16.3)
Extremely different, yes.

Sarah Collins (01:29.388)
Yes, I sit in the chair for hours, but I have a great relationship with my stylist. I love her dearly. Her name is Becky. Yes, but I don't get my hair done that much because I am a pretty low maintenance hair person. And so I don't have to go as often as a man would, but that's neither here nor there. I have a question for you today.

Bill Dippel (01:34.934)
I think you'd have to, right? Yeah, right.

Bill Dippel (01:46.382)
Perfect. That is neither here nor there. I am ready for the question.

Sarah Collins (01:51.404)
What do you think is one of the most underrated skills that helps a team thrive?

Bill Dippel (01:58.071)
underrated skills.

Bill Dippel (02:02.477)
Two things pop directly into my mind and they are either communication or and I want to use a gallop term here, harmony. And I only, say that because for me, when I'm working with and coaching some teams, the first one communication tends to fall down because even in small teams, we get some silos. We get some people that do not want to talk about

Sarah Collins (02:14.956)
Okay, okay, say more.

Sarah Collins (02:29.988)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (02:32.587)
Hey, my feelings got hurt or I didn't, you know, I don't need to step up because that's your job. I would say expectations and maybe some of the job requirements haven't been accurately communicated by the by the management and the boss. And they aren't using some of the tools to make that happen. So I think that gets missing from some of the groups that I'm working with. And then the harmony end of it, I think, is the backside of that.

Sarah Collins (02:50.02)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (03:01.261)
So if I can get them to communicate and I can get them to actually be open about what it is, not a pure harmony where I'm going to shut down if we're in a rumble, but more of a, well, now that I've seen your side, can we row in the right direction together? So I'm going to link the communication and the harmony so that we get it out. And now where do we go? That would be my, that would be my link to that. How about you? What do you think from a, from a team dynamic might be missing?

Sarah Collins (03:23.684)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (03:30.062)
I think it's oftentimes friendship and maybe dare I go as far to say love. I think there's a lot of rhetoric out there that you shouldn't be friends with people that you work with and that you should keep working home separate. you know, just like you don't want to mix the waters because, what if one day you have to manage that person? And I think on some of the best teams that I've worked with and been a part of.

Bill Dippel (03:36.525)
you

Sarah Collins (03:57.051)
True friendship is often at the core of it, of getting to know people on a personal and professional level. And I think it can actually make hard conversations easier. I don't think that you have to be best friends with everyone that you work with, but I think having your person, your confidant, your go-to person that you feel safe with to say, today is a really hard day, or I got this email and I don't know how to respond to it, or I just kicked ass in that meeting and I want to celebrate it.

Having someone that you feel that friendship with, I think is really important. I think it is. And I think when you, the love piece of it, I think when you have a manager or a leader who truly loves the people on their team. Now that doesn't mean they love every aspect of them. That's not like romantic love, but like truly cares, has heart. I think that's what inspires hope. That's what Gallup tells us people want right now.

And I think if you're just like, I'm clocking in, I'm doing the work, you're here to grind it out. I don't think that's inspiring. I don't think it breeds loyalty. I think it makes it transactional. And I think that's what people want to leave. And I think when people want to stay and they love their team, it's because there's love and friendship built from within.

Bill Dippel (05:09.229)
Yeah, I am struck often about how often our answers as being Gallup coaches are different, but actually have a vein in the same sort of sort of way that, you know, I'm trying to get people together and you're trying to get people together. I'm trying to get managers to get the best out of them by understanding, hey, maybe I didn't communicate clearly and I need to be the person that steps up.

Sarah Collins (05:18.115)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (05:37.888)
and jumps to that next level so that you understand what it is. And then we're where are we going to take the boat from there? Because we've just made a new plateau and yours is about I need to have that friend. I need to have a confidant, somebody I can talk to and be really honest about. And we all know Gallup Research tells us, you know, as part of the Q12, do you have a best friend at work? Stop. And if you don't, let's stop the Q12 here. Let's not get much further up that up the roster.

because that is an important dynamic around work. again, I think it's it's all I always find it interesting you and I as coaches. I think we have the vein. But and I think part of the reason we do this podcast is we are different in how generationally and gender based and but we still have that same message. We're still there talking about that same thing. And I love that. I love that for the listeners that they get the dynamic of the difference. But

We're still probably promoting the same message

Sarah Collins (06:38.848)
Absolutely. And today we have a really exciting message because today we get to talk about what is the biggest mistake companies make after introducing CliftonStrengths. So as consultants, we often go into organizations, we work with teams, we work with companies, we often use CliftonStrengths as our tool, and we are really lucky to have an internal coach with us today. So we have John Sexton from Vibrant Credit Union.

They have a thriving CliftonStrengths program and John also works with other companies and so he is, I don't know, the go-to expert on what this looks like to build CliftonStrengths within a company and I'm sure from that also knows some of the pitfalls that maybe companies get into. So John, welcome to Strengths on Fire.

Jon Sexton (07:24.579)
Thanks so much, sir. That's quite the intro. And let's let's be real clear. When we set the bar a little lower, we can all jump over. And you said it really high for me. I'm being I'm being playful, but I use that as a realistic glimpse for those companies and those organizations that are thinking, man, we need to start this. But how do we make it perfect? And how do we have all of the things happen right away? And I'd say that's probably one of the things where people

Sarah Collins (07:34.564)
I have faith in you.

Jon Sexton (07:52.471)
trip up most as they're going for perfection right out of the gate. And it's not so much perfection. It's do a little bit at a time and then scale that up. Just continue to tinker and experiment. And I see a lot of organizations come out of the gate real fast and strong and then Peter out pretty quick to

Sarah Collins (08:00.763)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (08:10.966)
Wow, great message. We've been fortunate. Sarah and I attended the event where you spoke recently. I shouldn't say recently. Now it's almost a year ago, half a year ago. But whatever it is, we got to see you talk and go over how you rolled this out within the credit union that you work in and how you see it operationally and others. And I was really, really impressed by one, the clarity of your messaging, the

Sarah Collins (08:11.109)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (08:39.84)
definitions of your timelines and how you had brought it in and what you were willing to do. And today you hit us right out of the gate with a wonderful thought process because I know I get tripped up by this and sometimes I don't know what to say when someone says we're all in, let's go. I need it to hit on these levels right now. And it's the line of, if we set the bar a little lower, we can all get over it is a wonderful way, a great visualization to

Jon Sexton (09:04.824)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (09:09.344)
to step into and get them to start seeing how we can all get there together, how we might not want to be setting it so high that we're all struggling or some of us are struggling really hard to get there. Is that a line, is that a component that you bring in frequently when you start working with teams?

Jon Sexton (09:27.027)
I, know, I don't know that I always lean into that metaphor, but I talk a lot about the importance of blending the actual strengths work with data. And so you reference the Q12 and that can be, that can be an important component for some organizations to make it sticky. because for some they'll look at strengths and think, okay, there's an interpersonal aspect to this and that feels soft and fun. And that's about it. It's more of a team builder.

how do we make it sustain for a lot of organizations that I work with, and particularly Vibrant would really set it off was, let's introduce the Q12 and see what we've got going with this. And then our more strategic thinking and analytical folks started to see this data pour in where we could assess the effectiveness of leaders within the organization. And then coupled with strengths, just kind of amplify that and some really, really neat things started to happen.

Sarah Collins (10:20.795)
Okay, before we get too far ahead of ourselves, the people listening are arsonists as we call them. They're probably like, who are we talking, who are we listening to? So John, I know. So give the listener just a little glimpse of who you are, what exactly you do, and then also rattle off if you can. It's okay if you can't because many of the people cannot, but give us your top 10.

Bill Dippel (10:29.036)
Who is this smooth, soft-spoken, wonderful guy?

Jon Sexton (10:45.005)
You bet. So a brief intro, I, we started talking about the credit union industry and even in that space, I'm a little quirky. I started my career in higher education. So 10 years at the university of Iowa, a year at a small private liberal arts college called Grinnell college in Grinnell, Iowa. And I never thought I'd leave higher ed. That's where I was actually introduced to strengths. And my confession there is in higher ed, you work with a lot of assessments.

Sarah Collins (11:13.253)
Mm-hmm.

Jon Sexton (11:13.355)
And when CliftonStrengths first came out, my response was, we're going to do a different one? Like how many of these are we going to do? And I, I vividly recall introducing it to our, our Hawkeye guides at Iowa and watching as they just embrace that language and really rolled with it. And I thought, okay, this one's different. There's something about this particular assessment that's really resonating. And when Vibrant reached out and said, Hey, would you come do what you're doing in higher ed for us? My initial response was no.

I have zero desire to work in the financial services industry. I don't think that's me. And their challenge was just come see our culture. We think it might align. And sure enough, that was that was the tipping point. So I got in there, got certified right out of the gate, and we agreed to launch a CliftonStrengths culture and really start rolling with that. And there was an immediate draw and immediate energy around it. And it just started to run. And as I was rambling, I forgot the second part of your question.

Sarah Collins (12:09.851)
Just your top 10 strengths.

Jon Sexton (12:12.685)
You bet, Includer, Positivity, Woo, Communication, Strategic, Arranger, Achiever, Self-Assurance, Maximizer, and one more, Activator.

Sarah Collins (12:27.451)
Excellent. So you're coming at us with five influencing themes, two relationship building, two executing, and one strategic thinking. So you are leading with that influencing domain, which I feel like has to be a huge part of the work that you did both at the university and now at the credit union. And I would be remiss if I didn't say, you a Hawkeye? Like, do you still carry that? Because go big red. You know, I just,

Jon Sexton (12:50.773)
Yeah, hey, go Hawks.

Bill Dippel (12:51.676)
Jon Sexton (12:54.915)
Hey, that's what I figured.

Sarah Collins (12:56.111)
Can't move past it without saying gross.

Jon Sexton (12:58.999)
You know, you know, what's fun is whenever we get into these, I just say go big 10, which it's kind of hard to say that now because it's growing so quickly. but, but when I was working in orientation at Iowa, one of the coolest thing is, is we would go to all of the different institution institutions, one each year and kind of talk about what they were doing at those schools. And I, I still vividly recall, visiting Nebraska. We went over to the football field. learned about

Bill Dippel (13:07.285)
Right.

Jon Sexton (13:26.073)
some of the concussion program that they were working on there as they thought about ways to make the game as safe as possible. And also folding that into the, I think the coolest thing I heard about it in Nebraska was that you could sign up to eat in the football cafeteria and you could reserve a time. And I thought, well, how fun is that for student fans that are really into the game? And if you don't love football, well, sorry.

Sarah Collins (13:40.613)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (13:48.047)
Yeah, yeah, well.

Bill Dippel (13:49.421)
Yeah, who cares? And the coolest thing in Nebraska for me was always Sarah. So, you know, had that.

Sarah Collins (13:52.763)
Jon Sexton (13:53.473)
There you go. And of course the CliftonStrengths Institute too. Is that the name of it? Yep.

Sarah Collins (13:55.631)
you

Bill Dippel (13:58.622)
Right, right, yeah. Nice.

Sarah Collins (13:58.81)
Yeah, yep, the CliftonStrengths Institute and the College of Business there. that's where I, because I come from higher ed too. We have so much in common coming from that and being exposed to CliftonStrengths there. So you were in higher ed working CliftonStrengths, using it with students, seeing its success. You get poached by the credit union and they say,

Jon Sexton (14:02.177)
which is awesome.

Jon Sexton (14:14.745)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (14:22.543)
had they started it when they asked you to come over or were they saying, we just want to start it and we want you to be the leader of that?

Jon Sexton (14:30.509)
I'd known our CEO for some time. And when I first started, he said, Hey, before you even start, would you come and sit down with the leadership team and kind of do an intro? He wanted to do a blend of Clifton strengths and the Myers Briggs. And we kind of talked through the why. And he said, I want to do the full 34 on strengths so people know what they're good at and what they're bad at and how we can fix it. And I, and I said, I don't know if that's it, but we can.

Bill Dippel (14:56.233)
Well, hold on.

Jon Sexton (14:59.841)
We can take a little bit of that approach and I'm probably going to spin it a different way. And we did. And I remember a very specific example from that. There was one executive who Harmony was number one and this, this leadership team celebrated a culture of very intense debate. You would, you would get into it. And you ruffle feathers at times, but you'd come. The joke was you'd come out hugging it out, but you needed to have the ability to be real.

And for this one lead with Harmony, she said, you know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I really struggle with that. And it's hard for me to really engage and I'm going to be better about being more aggressive. And I challenged it. I said, I don't know if you need to apologize. It's not bad to try to find your voice when you feel strongly about something, but if every voice is the loudest in the room and the debate never stops, how do we find that common ground? And that's what you bring. And she, she came into my office the next day and said, I've been thinking about that all night.

Like just the way that that was reframed. And I think that's the magic of CliftonStrengths is when you think of the positive aspects of all of these things as opposed to what's wrong with them.

Bill Dippel (16:07.115)
I love it. Well, and speaking of the positive aspects, I have an odd question for you because you kind of hit it in the beginning of this. And as we start looking at your take on what the biggest mistakes companies may be making, diving into your thought process, when you highlighted your initialization into Gallup at higher ed and then also you're being asked by a credit union to come and begin that.

Sarah Collins (16:07.334)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (16:36.713)
The initial answers were no, right? Like, no, I don't want to do another one of these, right? This is just another assessment. Why am I doing this? And no, I don't have anything to say in the financial sector. That's not a, that's not somewhere I go. But you got over both of those no's and made pretty quick, hey, this is something different about this. And man, I, you know, this culture may really need this. I'm curious from your point of view, as we start thinking of companies and how you approach it.

What strength does it play for you when you start with no, but end with yes? Or what is it that gets you to the yes and gets that positivity for you in that time?

Jon Sexton (17:06.679)
Ha

Jon Sexton (17:11.157)
And it's always a game. It's Wu time. And I don't even I don't even think of it as Wu. I joke sometimes now talking today about Wu. I remember reading in literature class about the concept of charm. And I thought that I don't like that term. That's a weird term. And I frequently think of Wu as charm. How do I get you in? Here's here's how I genuinely think about it. Take take all that language away. And it's.

Sarah Collins (17:13.404)
You

Bill Dippel (17:13.461)
Hmm... Yeah.

Jon Sexton (17:36.707)
How do I get you excited about what I'm excited about? And that's a game to me. It's fun. And wherever I'm working, when I'm really passionate about something, we've got a guy at vibrant that talks about the idea that whenever I talk to somebody that says they don't like sales, I reinforce for them all the time. You're selling all the time. You just don't call it that. And he's like, John, you sell strengths because you're passionate about it. When you start with passion.

people get excited about what you're excited about because you're speaking authentically and genuinely. And I think that's where any space where, where once I experienced it and really bought in it pretty quick for me to say, you should try this. And here's all of the reasons why.

Bill Dippel (18:19.819)
That's a wonderful way to state it. Thanks for getting us to that next. I again woo and I We have it in that same spot. I said, I think mine's four actually but It's fascinating to hear you say it that way and that woo is the one that you think is pulling you into that Ability Sarah you have woo number two, right? So Does that resonate with you too? Do you feel that as a a a answer to the question?

Sarah Collins (18:49.872)
You want me to answer the question?

Bill Dippel (18:50.929)
Yeah, yeah. You agree that it's woo and that's what's happening that to get to the next level. I would agree with me. I think that's probably pretty fair with me as well, that it is it is a process, a game, and I got to figure it out again. We've had some brilliant people on the show say the first part of woo is winning and we want to we want to win. So for me, I'd say that resonates really well. I'm curious from a number two. You agree?

Sarah Collins (19:18.076)
Well, you know, I don't like to get hung up on the numbers, but I will say I think woo is a lot smarter than people give it credit for. I think when people first take the assessment or they're introduced to this and they hear woo, first of all, it's the only one that's an acronym and it sounds like woo, you know, and so it's this winning others over. And I think it can get this really vapid, charming, sort of like you were saying, John, like it can get this appearance of just like, my God, hi, but really surface level.

Bill Dippel (19:20.593)
I know you don't. I really

Sarah Collins (19:47.313)
And I think most of the woos that I know and when I work with people who have woo, it's a lot smarter than that because to truly win and win someone over and to have it help you influence people, right? influencing themes are a lot about energy and it's bringing the energy. It has to be smarter than just, my God, hello.

Jon Sexton (20:02.723)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (20:09.432)
It has to be listening. And I think depending on your other strengths surrounding your woo, the way you'll do that is different. So my woo is surrounded by a lot of relationship building themes. Right. And so I think I have a really good intuition. think I can walk in a room and read it. And I think I can go, okay, here's what we need. Here's how much energy I need to bring. Here's somebody who's not engaged. Now I've got my eye on them and I want to look at them. And so I think it is a really good way to get a pulse.

on what's happening and then how can you meet or exceed that depending on what the situation is asking for you.

Jon Sexton (20:39.66)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (20:48.234)
And very well said. I love it. So you got three woos talking about how we use it in slightly different ways and how, John, thanks for highlighting the great way that you see it and the power it brings when you're having those interactions with those groups. But go ahead.

Jon Sexton (20:54.425)
you

Jon Sexton (21:05.689)
It's it's so funny. I you know, my spouse will sometimes say, you know, if a reservation doesn't go through or we get a fee on something like, John, you know, you're going to go talk to them, right? I'm not talking to them. And I kind of agree. Why? Because you'll get out of it. You'll get what we need. You'll the feel go away. She's like, don't get it. I don't understand how you do it. And to me, this is a Midwest thing, but I just think it's super Midwest. Nice. I don't think of it as even trying. I'm just going to really

Genuinely ask like hey, I made a mistake. I'm so sorry We meant to do this. Here's what's going on I was I was curious to see if you could help me all the while treating that person like they're the most important person in the room to me That's just that's just how you operate but I get that's not how everybody operates and I think out of that genuine warmth and niceness and Sometimes playfulness you just kind of tweak it a little bit then you get different outcomes in those situations that I think what most people expect

Sarah Collins (22:04.604)
Yeah. So, what I was gonna say, so knowing that you have this woo, you go to the credit union to start this CliftonStrengths program. What does it look like in the beginning? Do you feel like immediately it's successful? Do you feel like you've stumbled? What was the plan going in? Was it successful?

Bill Dippel (22:05.576)
Yeah, and go ahead, sir.

Jon Sexton (22:25.729)
It happened in phases. So. The most paramount aspect, I think of all of this and where we're at today is our CEO asked me, what is what is your thought on this? So immediately I've got buy in at the top level. There's interest in moving on this. I think the ability to get at least one executive sponsor that is like, hey, if nothing else, we can pilot it in an area and then we can go for there. For us, it was.

It really resonated when we did that leadership team workshop. Let's do it with all of our vice presidents. Shortly thereafter, said, hey, know, smaller organization. So at the time, I think we had a headcount of around 190 people. I said, what if we just did it for everybody? It's going to be a little bit of an investment at first, but everybody will know what it looks like. And all of these VPs will then have the ability to create team grids for them they'll know what they've got there. And

That that solidified strengths within the organization because now that everybody had it you couldn't stop. Let's keep giving it to folks in in orientation. And it just rolled from there. I think the other thing that was important at least for me that helped amplify it was I got certified that same year and I don't know about y'all but I went through that process and I remember halfway through the advanced certification.

They said, now we're going to talk about coaching. And I remember I don't always do my homework. And I thought, what, what are we doing? What is this? I'm just here for the certification. Like, this is part of the certification. And we started to coach and I thought, well, this is fun. I didn't expect this went back and started coaching at vibrant and coaching around the full 34. And at that time, our executive team noticed this carousel of people that was coming in and out of my office.

And they said, what are you talking about? And I just grinned and said, no, can't tell you. And then we talked about coaching the value of it, why it was important. And then, uh, my role evolved. became more of a internal consultant as opposed to a dedicated, um, higher level HR role. And we just continued to expand.

Sarah Collins (24:34.375)
Yeah, I love what you're saying because when I go into an organization, I see it exactly what you said. If it is an executive or a leader at the top who brings it in the success with it, how it permeates everything so much easier. The buy-in is there is so much better than sometimes we have the HR people who want to bring it in. And if you want to like, I'm not saying if you're an HR and you want to bring in and you shouldn't. I'm just saying sometimes that's like the middle and it can be harder.

Bill Dippel (24:35.326)
Such a, yeah.

Sarah Collins (25:04.007)
to get traction the way we want, where sometimes when that happens, it ends up being a one and done. And I think that is one of the big mistakes companies can make is they see this as a fun thing to do at a retreat. And of course it can be that, you know, it can, it can be a fun thing, a great conversation topic, let's do it for a retreat, but it can be so much more. There's so much more there. And if you've already,

Jon Sexton (25:05.965)
Yeah.

Jon Sexton (25:12.761)
Mm-hmm.

Jon Sexton (25:21.975)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (25:32.126)
spent the money to get people tested and you've already spent the money on having a facilitator come in to do a day, the possibilities are really endless. And so I just think if we want to see this be more what it can live up to going that top level, having some buy in from a senior level person, it just hits better than maybe coming in at a more mid level, which sometimes those HR really well intentioned, really well thoughtful people are coming in at. Agree, disagree?

Jon Sexton (25:48.749)
Mm-hmm.

Jon Sexton (26:01.687)
Yeah, I'd say too, when you think of mistakes that companies make, I would reframe it as what are the threats that can derail your efforts? Another major...

Sarah Collins (26:12.413)
It's not as catchy for a podcast title, but I like where your head's at.

Bill Dippel (26:16.658)
Mm-hmm.

Jon Sexton (26:16.665)
Yeah, I'm getting real, real real. But you think of threats. Another major one was, well, this is cool, but I really like the Enneagram or I really like the Hogan or I really like whatever else. It's OK, I think for like if a team wants to do a workshop around that.

If you're going to go that direction a little bit, but find the assessment you're going to work with and make an effort to stick to it because that's what makes language sticky. talk all the time. I walk around our building and I'd say 90 % of the time, at least once during the day, I will hear someone reference strengths. And that's telling me that it is immersed in our culture.

Sarah Collins (26:58.705)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (26:59.037)
Yeah. And I, you know, I heard your story around, hey, when I got, cause I did the accelerated, the strengths coaching side as well, but I was an embedded coach at the time and I was, I was clamoring for the information on coaching. I really wanted to know more about it when I got there because I was kind of feeling the other side of it. I thought, man, I can do this, facilitate for the group, make it happen, but I really need the tools and the knowledge for the individual stuff, for the people that are

Jon Sexton (27:14.029)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (27:28.145)
reaching out to me and saying, I need some one on one to understand how I manage with this or how I become a coach myself and step into more of a role that allows me to be bigger within the company. So it's funny, you know, we were both embedded at that time. were like, I was I was really looking for I needed some one on one time. I wanted to make sure I had that. And to that measure, when I was embedded, I think the first company I was embedded with showed me kind of what my

Answer to the biggest mistake many of the companies I see is and it's a little bit similar to yours, but in a different way You know you're saying let's set the bar a little lower. Let's let's all get over it and also the variety of possible Assessments you might take Sarah and I have brought that up on a couple of different shows where that's the thing that drives us nuts is We're I'm happy to work with any anything you are doing

Jon Sexton (28:18.585)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (28:24.827)
I'm clearly going to lead us back to Gallup because I understand it know it very, very well. But for me, whatever's making a difference for you, let's implement, but let's stay with it. I think those are all really important. On my side of it, working with the initial team I was with and then some of the companies I see now, the mistake I see is looking too far forward. It's not necessarily that they want it to be perfect, but now they're thinking...

well, we could use this for this. Now let's do this and we could go this far for this. And it's great to have that that ability to rain have have a playbook and lay it out. But in doing that so often, they're missing the easy, obvious stuff right in front of them. And I frequently have to reel them in to say, let's talk about exactly what we're doing today and right now. And let's break down what's happening in the room, because we have a group in the room.

that is talking about clear communication where that might not have happened, where I could lean in with another strength that other people will understand. And if we can build on that, all that other stuff's going to be really easy, really easier. Right. It'll be it will have less rumble to get there. So don't forward cast so far. I know that we're a company that really thinks we have to be progressive and go. But this is really a system for me that when we're here, we need to be.

We really need to be paying attention to exactly what's happening. And it feels to me that you really brought that to Vibrant Would that be fair?

Jon Sexton (29:57.901)
Yeah, I think there's if you use a metaphor of I'd say we're building a skyscraper. You don't get anywhere until you build the foundation and for the first year it doesn't look like you're doing anything for the average person. But the foundation, the water lines, the electrical at that base level is what's happening. You can't see it. That's really integral to make sure that you've got a building that's going to stay on the test of time. It's the same thing with integrating an assessment into your culture.

Sarah Collins (30:08.166)
Mm-hmm.

Jon Sexton (30:27.603)
is considering all of the layers in which you can implement it. But the first piece is making sure that you come out with a really strong foundation and a really strong understanding of the why behind this.

Sarah Collins (30:39.089)
Yeah. So what do you think some of the key components of building a foundation if you're introducing CliftonStrengths or any assessment, but we're talking about CliftonStrengths, into a culture, what happens that first year, two, three, to make it strong so we can build on top of it to see that skyscraper eventually?

Jon Sexton (30:59.885)
think it's twofold. So you mentioned the vast majority of my work is with Vibrant. on occasion, I will work with other organizations to kind of give them ideas or to share ideas on how they might run this.

Particularly from a consulting lens. I frequently talk about the idea that we can we can work on this together initially You need to find who your internal champion is going to be that is going to sustain this or even a Imagine a smaller initiative where you just got a really passionate leader that wants to introduce this and sustain it for 30 30 people What are your plans over the next year to integrate this into one-on-ones?

perhaps into performance reviews? What are the visuals that you're going to create so people think about their strengths on a more regular basis? And how are you going to integrate it into your daily vernacular? That sounds really jargony on that last one, but how are you going to continue talking about this? Because that is what brings it to life.

Sarah Collins (31:58.345)
Yeah, I love that because it takes it from how do we describe ourselves? How do we help solve our problems and change our culture? Because I think that is the first level people see is just, this is a fun way to learn about myself and maybe even learn about my teammates. But that isn't embedding something into your culture, right? That's just a cool tool, which is great. We all need cool tools. But what you're describing is transforming culture to be a

Jon Sexton (32:14.925)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (32:28.702)
place that people want to be in because it is based on what they do right and it is focused on that. And so what you're talking about the visuals, we need to see it. If we don't see it, it's like a language. We don't use it. We lose it. So we need to see it. We need to talk about our one-on-ones, our performance reviews. We need to have those ambassadors or whatever you call them internally that are moving the needle because a consultant is only going to come in and pepper that excitement and that energy when they're there. But when they leave, who's

Jon Sexton (32:31.063)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (32:57.832)
Who is carrying the mission? I think that's really important.

Jon Sexton (33:02.135)
Yeah, I think too. Now this, I don't know if there's a right way. You got to kind of figure out what it looks like within your culture. But what are your measurables with this? That is, think another piece that was integral for keeping strengths alive in our organization was. I think it was 18 months in we were working with a Gallup consultant and we said, hey, they introduced the Q12 and said this, could really help with a lot of things. And when we introduced the Q12.

Sarah Collins (33:11.454)
Mmm.

Jon Sexton (33:29.665)
We were able to zero in on measurables for our leaders and their effectiveness that wasn't just about how people feel. I think Bill, you're talking about harmony at the very beginning. I think of it as chemistry. Chemistry doesn't just happen. You need good leadership there. The Q12 was a way for us to measure that. I see organizations and work with organizations that'll say, Hey, we use this other assessment for engagement.

And that's fine, but how are you making sure that you're interweaving those things? The nice thing about the Q12 is there's that automatic, automatic interweaving, if you will, you think of Q3 at work, I have the opportunity to do what I do best every day. It's like another way of saying I have an opportunity to use my strengths every day. You get that, that individual level, but then you start to get a gauge of what do I, how do I feel about my leader? And then how does that start to demonstrate how I feel at work?

And those measures, once we started to roll those out and then sustain them, so you've got a few measures a year for every manager in the organization, all of a sudden executives are looking at that and saying, okay, now we have some tangible data and measures that kind of demonstrate the ROI or return on investment, popular term in business. What is the actual value of this and what's it doing for our organization?

Bill Dippel (34:46.728)
And I I want to build on the foundation component you brought up here a couple minutes ago Let's say we built the foundation the water lines are in the plumbing is in the electrical has made it We're getting into the we're starting to build into the skyscraper and we're getting to level 20 Let's expand that a little bit. What what are the sideways roadmap? What is the thing that might detract a company now that we've gone quite a ways down this road? Have you ever experienced any?

Ideas around where that might throw some a company sideways or a sunder of hey We're stepping away from this even though we've started a great foundation

Jon Sexton (35:26.935)
I think just no plan to sustain. Again, if we stick with the metaphor, think of a really ambitious architectural project where it stops because the budget wasn't figured out. Yeah, or the long-term project management. Like, hey, guess what? We had a budget, but we under-projected by 75%. And now we can't afford to finish it. Projects like that actually happen.

Bill Dippel (35:38.842)
Lack of funding.

Sarah Collins (35:39.592)
Mm-hmm.

Jon Sexton (35:51.889)
And I think that's what you see is, folks that are really ambitious. Maybe there's a little too much activator, which is in my top 10. I'm not knocking it, but it's just go time. Let's do this thing. And, gosh, we didn't think about what we're going to do after the initial excitement. So finding those folks who are, dedicating dedicated to sustaining that might be one champion in your organization or it. In larger organizations, it might be a committee approach where you really think through the details. If I compare and contrast.

I was actually part of an initiative at Iowa where we were going to roll out strengths to every student in the organization and we got to a point where we actually did every and it was ironically

I didn't know if it was going to go. We left the org or I left the org and right after that, they rolled this initiative out and every first year student took strengths during orientation or right before orientation and it was folded into some things. We thought about ways to make it visible when they moved into their residence hall if they were living on campus. But beyond that, anybody that works in higher ed knows you've got to figure out ways to get faculty involved. You've got to figure out ways to tie it into academic programming, into career planning,

Etc. And that's a big lift. The initial excitement was there. I think that initiative at that grand scale lasted maybe three or four years and then they scaled back because there's an investment but we're not actually fully leveraging this. Make sure you're prepared to fully leverage.

Sarah Collins (37:21.372)
Yeah. And I have worked in an organization as a consultant where at some point in time, years ago, they had decided to do it. And I don't know what the rollout looked like, but I know everyone took the assessment and got their top five. And when they brought me in, everybody had their top five, but they were like, yeah, we do this on onboarding, but we haven't touched it. So a lot of people, haven't done anything with it. They have it on their name badges. They've got it on, it's all over the building, right? They had so much of it at one point. And I imagine there was a big push.

Jon Sexton (37:34.201)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (37:51.165)
And I came in and for about a year started retraining people and coaching people and getting people kind of up on it again. And it was so fascinating to me because these words that people had were labels and not language because they weren't taught what it meant. And I think that's one of the tricky things is if you just give someone this assessment, they're going to see some of these words.

Like communication and they're going to say, I'm a great communicator. Well, that's not what it necessarily means. You might have capacity to be a great communicator, but you could just be a whole dumpster fire of word vomit. Okay. You have to hone that right. Or maximizer. Woo. There are just so many words that you need to understand the language beneath it and what it looks like and how it plays out for you and how to mature it. And I think it almost can be dangerous to just

throw people the assessment and give them no training or education around it and put these labels on their name badges that they're now going to be associated with from everybody at the organization, that's not really helping people. And that's what it can look like if you just put it in the budget for onboarding, but stop all of the other initiatives, because then it almost is hurting us as opposed to helping us when we've just like gone two inches into the project.

Bill Dippel (39:21.138)
Fair and John I would also I would want to ask you you brought up a couple of times You got to have a champion inside and Sarah brought up the term ambassador. We use that that as well for several of the clients we work with stepping in and and Having the ability for some of the people inside the organization to have a leg up on the knowledge and the ability to keep pushing the agenda when the coaching can't be there

I'm curious from your point of view. What do your ambassadors or your champions? What are you empowering them to do? What is their level of activation and how are they pushing versus you coming in and being the person that's really pushing the rock up the hill?

Jon Sexton (40:08.087)
So Bill, you talked about your excitement for individual coaching and I joked that I didn't know that was going to be part of it. that's another component that I think really helped solidify things within our org was, once we really got into strengths, we started a dedicated quarterly coaching program where, every executive

vice president and manager would meet with me for an hour twice a year. That was about their q12 results and what they were going to do with it. And the other two times was either a dedicated focus on their strengths or the strengths of their team. And as we continued those conversations, it delved into that individual understanding of what do my strengths mean and how do I understand that within the context of

what it means for my team. And that was really interesting because kind of what Sarah's drilled in on this this concept of what does your strength really mean and also how is that shaded by your other talents and

And how does it manifest specifically for you now also recognize if I'm coaching myself like John you need to talk to people a lot you're gonna want to wander all over the building but someone else may need to really be able they may need to really drill into what they're doing maybe they've got focus and discipline and they don't want you in that office talking the whole time. How do I figure out as a manager.

how to cater my leadership style to make sure that I'm not draining my people's battery, but actually filling it. And that's an important component where the coaching helps amplify understanding. Real quick, I'll also talk about maybe somebody's listening to this and they heard me talk about this idea that well, now we've got metrics on leaders in the Q12. Well, we don't necessarily want to do that because we don't want to

Jon Sexton (41:55.841)
to be perceived as negative. What I would say is the way we use that data is never has someone had a bad Q12 result, which again is about employee engagement, and immediately you say like you can't be a leader.

But if you run two years and you're consistently having really poor engagement results, you start to have a healthy conversation on what is it that you like about leadership? Do you want to lead people? Do you like facilitating one on ones? Well, I don't do one on ones because it's a waste of my time. I need to get stuff done. I think one of the hardest things for any leader is to go from that shift of I'm individually doing the work to I'm helping others do it. And that intangible is reflected in that data.

And most folks you can coach and kind of get to a better place in that regard. But when it's sustained poor performance on those numbers, it turns into a healthy conversation of do you want to lead people or do you want to lead initiatives? Because there's opportunities in both directions and both offer opportunities for long-term growth.

Sarah Collins (42:56.253)
Yeah. And I think it's great that you're in an organization that can recognize that because I think sometimes organizations can get stuck in the hierarchy of it all of like to be a manager, you have to be a people leader. And I think that this can help break that mold a little bit to say, can, you can advance in your career and not be someone who is leading people, but leading initiatives because some people are just not as talented and driven and energized by leading other people.

Jon Sexton (43:25.773)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (43:26.243)
That is not just, hey, you're a really good engineer, now you're an engineering manager. Good luck.

Jon Sexton (43:33.909)
It. Yeah, it was so interesting. I told this story at the conference that you reference, Bill, the. The coolest thing, and I'll say her name because I've talked about her since 2019 when we presented this at Gallup. We've got a manager named Claire Roth and more so than identifying issues and trying to coach up, you identify your amplifiers, the people.

who are naturally able to maximize the energy or the ability of the people around them. And that data really started to tell a story. Claire is someone who started as a fairly green manager. We dropped her in with a small team right around the time that we had launched the Q12. And we watched as these numbers went up over a quarter point as soon as you introduced Claire to that team.

We moved her a few more times to larger and larger teams and every time what happened as soon as there was a Q12 where she was on site that data would increase significantly and. It's like the coolest thing ever and we're able to praise it recently. Claire yet again just went to a different team. We have a.

an internal recognition reward that's kind of playful and vibrant like we are and it goes around. In fact, I just gave her this award this morning and showed her nomination. It was from a team member who had said this is a really new area for Claire, but she is bringing so much warmth and interest and is just so dedicated to knowing what I do and what my teammates do that you could look at that thing. I mean, I don't know if this is going to be good, but we know she cares. We know she cares.

Sarah Collins (45:07.165)
And it is, that is a real life antidote to antidote. That's not the right word. I'm trying to say example was the we'll say example of the, you know, the Gallup research that says 70 % of a team's engagement comes from the manager. And what you're describing is that example of somebody doing that, that the manager is the multiplier of the success. They are a pivotal person in there.

Jon Sexton (45:13.709)
I'll take your antidote.

Bill Dippel (45:14.744)
example. Let's go with example. I like it.

Jon Sexton (45:24.406)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (45:35.976)
And so knowing who they are, how they are, how they work, giving them this tool that can become this language that helps focus on what's right with people and recognition. The data shows us that this works. And I also like to tell people, you also know if you look in your soul that this works, okay? Because we can have all the data in the world that says, hey, it's good to see what people do well and to tell them they do it well and to care about people.

Jon Sexton (45:56.739)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (46:05.587)
But what really matters is look inside yourself. Of course that's what works. Of course it is. We are human beings. We are not robots yet. We need love and affection and attention and words of praise and recognition for the things that we do well. And that's what a good manager can bring is that listening ear, that understanding, that seeing people for who they are and helping them leverage up. And so I just love that you are in an organization that gets to

Go all in on that.

Jon Sexton (46:36.173)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (46:37.651)
Here's a question I have for you, John. You've given us a lot of good examples of what Vibrant does and things that you do when you work with teams. If someone is listening and they work for a company and they're like, you know what, we have been wanting to do strengths or maybe we started it. But what are some of those key ideas or key takeaways that companies could implement, something we haven't mentioned already, that could really help them use this assessment to leverage their culture for the better?

Jon Sexton (47:10.041)
Great question. And as soon as you started saying that something came to mind and it's re-imagine, re-imagine the introductory workshop. How frequently, how frequently do companies want to do that for a specific team for a team building initiative? Again, not discounting it. That's important. That's good. If you want to launch an initiative in your organization, how do you do this? is you with a team of managers?

And frame that workshop around how are you going to build this into your team culture? Not just this standalone workshop, but what is our focus on understanding how you're going to introduce this and sustain it within your team environment? The whole concept of the impact of the manager. How can we help you amplify your influence to amplify your effectiveness and to make your team feel seen, valued and heard?

Here you go. It's like a cheat code or a roadmap to really understand what's going to unlock the full talents and abilities of each of your people. I mean, I grew up. I'm going to throw it back here in the original Nintendo.

Entertainment system or NES era and we got really geeked out when you had a cheat code that would give you extra lives Or that would open up maps that you couldn't see initially. That's what this is It's a cheat code that helps you understand things and helps you start conversations with team members and also perhaps to give you some intuitive knowledge of Projects or initiatives where they are more likely to thrive

I mean, that's important. I mean, put me in a position where I'm not allowed to talk to people and I need to run numbers all the day and I'm not going to be in your org very long. Just like our very diligent, intentional data driven people. If I said, hey, you're going to take my job for the next three weeks and you're going to talk and present all day. They might physically slap me. Not really, because that's not a good thing, but you're going to get a scowl. You're going to you're going to get folks thinking, why would you do that to me?

Sarah Collins (48:52.352)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (49:06.704)
You

Jon Sexton (49:12.759)
And that goes back to this idea that when you know what really resonates, you can allow people to be amplified as opposed to dampened.

Bill Dippel (49:21.434)
Yeah, and that you you might get slapped right you might get you might get some physical eye rolling and they might start instantly looking for another job I got to do this and I'm being asked to do this and you may ask me in the future and How often all of us coach around that concept of we've got to know what they are and we have to know what motivates them and fuels them So that we can now place them in the right positions for their own self motivation

Jon Sexton (49:25.078)
Hahaha

Bill Dippel (49:47.909)
and motivation of what we want to get from a management point of view. Let's make them happier here so that they're happier at home, so they're happier coming to work, and let's keep that rotation and that cycle going. Sarah, I'm curious. I don't know how you would have phrased it. Do we have poll data on this one? I do not know. I didn't ask ahead of time.

Sarah Collins (50:08.728)
No we don't, but I thank you for asking. I was on vacation at the beginning of this week, so I did not get a LinkedIn poll up because I don't work on vacation. High five everyone.

Bill Dippel (50:16.996)
Not and I I love that you don't work on vacation. I'm backing because I have no idea how you would have asked this one. That one would have been really tough. So, John, we're going to we're going to move to the next part of this, which is a pretty common sequence of questions we ask our guests. We're going to throw you into the bus a little bit on this. So you've been bringing a lot of good information around how teams get engaged and how we can keep motivating our ambassadors to pushing and moving the rock and how

We can use Q12 for management. But you personally, when you're walking into work or even in your home life, when it is all working super well for you, when you're having a day, when you're in the flow and you absolutely are firing on all cylinders, we call that the firework moment on this show. So when you're in your firework moment, what does that look like for you and what themes might be at play then?

Jon Sexton (51:11.929)
Contagious energy and I think when I'm excited everybody knows it because I'm usually running around the building again We've got a fun playful culture. I might be on a scooter I might be just randomly popping up in your workspace and asking how you're doing today and Talking about some excitement around something that's going on or get get pumped because we're about to roll out this new series My energy goes on overdrive, which may be a lot for some people. So I have to be mindful of not letting it

I'm not letting those fireworks get out of control, but you know it and I frequently use those moments to move around the building and to engage in spaces where I know energy is needed because I frequently think about bring the energy that you want to be around and figure out how to share it with others. And that's probably not probably that's

Positivity communication who a lot of included particularly when I know that some teams feel unseen unappreciated That their work doesn't matter then it's it's almost an over intentional effort to really spend a lot of time around those folks

Bill Dippel (52:20.025)
I was going to pass out if you didn't bring up Includer as being the one of the themes fueling that when you were I have to go to different parts of the building and bring the energy that I don't I feel an energy vacuum over here and I need to step over here and boost like let's let's get some let's get that going and you almost were defining Includer from the Gallup pages in that way and I thought wow that's a really powerful theme for you so the backside of that and the next part of that question is

Jon Sexton (52:42.615)
You

Bill Dippel (52:50.179)
what we call the dumpster fire moments. So when you're not firing on all cylinders, things are not working as planned. I had a morning this morning where it seemed like everything was failing. I don't know why all of my technology and people I was talking to and things were just kind of going odd. So what's at play? What does that look like for you when you feel like you're in that dumpster fire?

Jon Sexton (53:13.443)
People rarely see it at work. Sometimes folks in professional environments ask me if I ever get mad or if I ever get frustrated. On rare occasion, you might see some of it in the workplace. At home, I think some folks don't always know this about positivity is the positive is amplified at a great level. But if I'm having a rough day, that can also be amplified and I can hide it really well. But in the spaces where I'm

Finally allowed not finally where I'm allowed to be fully vulnerable and fully me at home if I'm having a rough day And sometimes my spouse is like, okay, mr positivity Because I can get into a funk and get really fixated on gosh darn it like I want this I want this to get figured out I want to roll with it I want to move and I'm running in all these obstacles and I don't like it or I missed something and I'll beat myself up on the home front because I didn't catch that there was a kiddo performance and I don't have it on the calendar and then I can fix it on

that. And so making sure that everywhere I'm at that I guess there's an aspect of taking care of oneself so that you can get the best aspect of your strengths because that's again I don't I don't think it's talked about a lot but positivity can can manifest pretty intensely in all aspects of emotion.

Sarah Collins (54:29.024)
Wow, we've talked about this before on the show, because I have positivity number one, and I often will tell people it's a relationship building theme, which means it's activated when you're with people and the people in your house don't always activate it. That, know, because you it just doesn't the way that these things show up in our house can look a lot different and how it really can. When you are sort of alone or allowed to be, you're still human.

Jon Sexton (54:43.758)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (54:57.918)
you know, and so I just resonate with you because I feel like when I go out in public and I'm at work, like, yes, I see the good in everything, but at home I can be just sad, lonely, depressed, know, anxious, worried. All of those emotions can just hit me like a brick wall sometimes at the house.

Jon Sexton (54:58.477)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (55:19.557)
And fascinating. You're you're looking at positivity as an amplifier in both directions. Like positivity is fairly high for me. It's 13. It's not in my top 10, but it's it's around. And I like Sarah with you, I really resonate with the idea that that can amplify where what I'm doing this morning. I I had like 20 missteps, just little things. Somebody.

Jon Sexton (55:19.801)
Yeah.

Jon Sexton (55:25.017)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (55:45.176)
somebody drove really slow through an intersection that I was trying to get to that early, early haircut for this morning that I joked about. And they're from another state and they just drove really slow. They're clearly lost. And because of that, I missed a light and I thought I was going to be, you know, and my positivity just amplifies it. I'm like, well, thank you very much for driving at five miles an hour down a 30 mile an hour. I mean, really, and I had two minutes to sit there and make that, you know, and.

Jon Sexton (55:58.124)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (56:10.277)
I tried to take my cell phone off of the holder in my car and it spun and it wouldn't release it. And I was like, what? Why is today this way? And it's funny as you say it, I was trying to think of which way it is for me. I honestly think a charge of that is positivity. I don't I can't I don't have the positivity already handled and working there and I can't lean into it and I don't know that I can up it. So thank you for that view. I really, really appreciate the way you brought that up.

All right, well, with that, John, we have taken a ton of your time today. We've taken an hour out of your ability to go out and do really good things and bring some positive energy to some teams that probably need you out there. So meander through where you're working and go raise some energy. Hopefully we infused you with some extra energy today.

Jon Sexton (56:58.425)
Ha

I love it. Yeah, this has been great. Thanks so much for the invitation. It's been fun chatting with you all.

Sarah Collins (57:05.824)
Thanks for finally accepting it.

Bill Dippel (57:06.073)
Yeah. I mean, really? All the times we asked, I mean, you know, so no inside joke group, we asked John and he thought he replied and he hadn't. then, of course, we all got lost in the mire. We thought he didn't want it. He thought we didn't care. It ended up being all of our positivities got a little trampled. So.

Jon Sexton (57:07.831)
Hahaha

Jon Sexton (57:12.003)
That's so good.

Jon Sexton (57:22.861)
I just.

thoroughly enjoyed that Sarah and I are debating this in an elevator. I wrote you back. didn't respond, Sarah. No, you didn't, John.

Bill Dippel (57:31.454)
I was there.

Sarah Collins (57:32.458)
I'm like, I have the receipts, let me show you. There's no response here, John. Do you just hate me? You don't wanna be on our podcast?

Bill Dippel (57:35.001)
Yeah. Everybody brought out phones. There was searching. yeah, it was good. It was good. Well, John, we did.

Jon Sexton (57:38.676)
was so good.

Sarah Collins (57:42.42)
But we got him, we persisted, we got it figured out, we got the messages all linked together and it was a success. John Sexton has been on Strengths on Fire. Check mark. Thank you folks.

Bill Dippel (57:51.041)
Yes. Perfect. Well, John, again, thank you very much for coming today. Thank you for the the really good wisdom around how you do what you do, why vibrant is really successful at where it stands and how you made that transition from higher ed to moving to an outside entity, where where the nose can turn to yeses for you. The brilliant firework and dumpster fire moments and actually doing a really good job of hitting on the foundational work.

that needs to happen for companies and then what might derail them even as they get a little bigger and what what that might look like so we can keep an eye on it as coaches. So thank you really, really from from bottom of our hearts for coming in and bringing a lot of heat today. Thanks for that. Awesome. All right. And with that, we are overjoyed that we have come together again and we listen to our arsonists. So although we didn't have any data today, you know, I blame me today, Sarah. So.

I should have taken it over while I knew you were on vacation, my fault. So but we love our arsonists. We love that you tag in and listen to us. Send us notes. Give us give us a shout out. We love to have it. And.

Sarah Collins (58:50.128)
It was definitely my fault, so.

Sarah Collins (59:02.4)
Send us compliments is what he meant by notes, hi. Not anything, just compliments.

Bill Dippel (59:05.175)
Absolutely anything send us anything. We love it and

I mean, I'll take the bad. mean, it's still fun to see. So but with that and thank you to our arsonist. Thank you, John. And we will talk soon.

Sarah Collins (59:19.168)
Bye!