Strengths On Fire

Mary Hamm (00:02)
Well hello, hello, hello. How's it going, Bill?

Bill Dippel (00:06)
it is so good. Here I am hanging out with Mary in my morning. We're talking strength we we've already had a long strengths chat today. I mean I mean it's really

Mary Hamm (00:13)
We really have, yeah. I really think we should have just started hit record at the very beginning. Somebody would have killed you for sure. Like dead. And we wouldn't have even had to guess who it was.

Bill Dippel (00:18)
Somebody would have killed me if I did that. There would be killed me. I I mean I don't I don't I'm not saying anything. I don't want to mention ⁓ I don't wanna mention any names, Heidi, but ⁓ you know, I think I think death would have come quickly to me if I had snuck in the countdown timer. So ⁓ you know, our ⁓ we we love our chats in the morning. Yeah, we love our chats in the morning, kind of get moving, our pre-show.

Mary Hamm (00:40)
Least a broken finger.

Bill Dippel (00:45)
get together with our guests and everything. And today we're we're dealing with ⁓ some not only one but two people we love. So ⁓ it was kind of fun. We we went really long this morning. So I I blame me.

Mary Hamm (00:45)
Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, so if I have to just jump off at some point and just leave the two of you to finish out the show, like just go with it, 'cause, you know.

Bill Dippel (01:03)
Yeah. Well, we've already decided you're getting kicked off today 'cause there's good male male good male energy today on the show.

Mary Hamm (01:08)
That's true. That's fine. Heidi and I all have already started a pod podcast, so maybe we'll have you on as a guest at some point.

Jeff Liscum (01:10)
That's okay.

Bill Dippel (01:14)
⁓ so you that's w is that is that your hard stop when you gotta get off this one? Is your you gotta go record the

Mary Hamm (01:21)
'Cause I gotta go record with Heidi, yes.

Bill Dippel (01:24)
You know, at the end of your year you're gonna have eight podcasts that you know, I don't know how you're gonna keep all straight. ⁓ I'm just

Mary Hamm (01:31)
Yeah, that's okay. They're like book titles, you know. I have nine, ten, twelve of them, so it's fine.

Bill Dippel (01:34)
⁓ Yeah. It's funny, our system that we use to record these, and I'll I'll give a shout out to Riverside. We really like their product. They will let me ho like have studios for every podcast we do. So I could have like eight studios and it separates them all and it does and I was like, Jeez, I I mean, doing one sucks up enough time. I can't imagine being a guy that has to do s six of so

Mary Hamm (01:48)
Hello.

Huh. Right. It's like ⁓ hey, I learned something about podcasting, Bill. I learned that like you're not supposed to say like good morning or good evening or happy Friday or wow, it's fall. ⁓ but I'm gonna say good morning, happy Friday. Isn't this weather beautiful? Broke all three.

Bill Dippel (02:02)
I'm ready.

No, you're not. Yeah, we we break all the rules. Yeah. Yeah.

It's gorgeous. You broke all three and you did it in the first five seconds. So I I I truly appreciate your ability to step firmly on the throat of good podcasting etiquette. I and w and we've done it continually for all of our episodes. So I you know, I

Mary Hamm (02:20)
You're welcome.

You're welcome.

Well, see. And and one of my things is like for rules I'm like, I don't really think rules are needed. Not that's not true. But my my philosophy is like rules what rules, you know? So

Bill Dippel (02:40)
Mm-hmm.

What are rules? I spent I think two I spent two episodes talking about how the balloon races got canceled in the beginning, which again, we're not supposed to, you know, now everyone's gonna be like I mean, good lord. And without Renoites hearing it and knowing what that means, they they are very used to the balloon races, but our our Belgium listeners, they're gonna be like, What is the great Reno balloon race? So yeah, you know, now now now I've talked about it in three episodes. So

Jeff Liscum (02:44)
Exactly.

Mary Hamm (02:50)
Yeah, right. Doesn't make any sense. How many weeks were you looking at those balloons, right?

What's a balloon? Just kidding, Belgium. We love you, Belgium.

⁓ I ha

Bill Dippel (03:15)
⁓ so good.

Mary Hamm (03:20)
so I went to a conference this past week. Actually I was the MC at this conference this past week and I had my little cards out that Cole did, my my strengths cards, as like a table decoration type of thing. But I think yeah, the little things, yeah. And they were just like I just had spread them out on the table. Well, so I think s somebody thought that they were just like freebies. And

Bill Dippel (03:25)
Yep. Yep.

Yeah.

nice. You mean the the shaped ones that lock together? Yeah.

How many did you lose?

Mary Hamm (03:48)
So well so I I realized pretty quickly, I was like, this is not because somebody went to take one. I was like, no, no, no, those are just table decorations. And then I was like, I need to put these away. And then I counted them and I was missing one. And guess which one I was missing?

Bill Dippel (04:02)
hope it's woo. It's gotta be woo.

Mary Hamm (04:05)
It's not. It was positivity. So remember, I was like, I was like MCing this thing. So I get out there and I was like, hey, so here's the thing. I'm now missing my positivity. And if I don't get it back, I will not be able to coach anybody on positivity again. And ⁓ and it's one of my strengths. So I feel very connected to my positivity. But right now I have lost my positivity. And it was really funny. And you know, I won them over with my request to get my positivity back.

Bill Dippel (04:07)
Somebody.

Jeff Liscum (04:28)
Uhhh

Bill Dippel (04:28)
Wow.

Mary Hamm (04:34)
But my goodness. And then this lady at the end, she was so sweet. And I had talked to her for quite a while at the table. And she was like, I'm so sorry. I had no idea. I was like, it's fine. It's Yeah. She was like, I'm so sorry. So yeah, I was like, I know, I know, I know. But just being able to say I lost my positivity, like, it was good.

Bill Dippel (04:43)
She was the one. She had it. She had it. Nice. You crushed her positivity, Mary. As a coach, you shut her down. Wow.

Jeff Liscum (04:47)
That's it.

Bill Dippel (04:57)
That's or the better than losing your woo. I'm just, you know, I get it. But at least you got it back. You got that going for ya. You know what you could do is I think somebody should come up with a way to put themes on shirts and then they can't steal them from you.

Mary Hamm (05:00)
I know it's true. I did get my positivity back, so.

That's so true. Cause even on a pen, somebody can steal a pen.

Bill Dippel (05:17)
I think that or on a pen some but if you're wearing it, I mean it's tough tough to get a shirt off you without you, you know, having something to say about it, so

Jeff Liscum (05:17)
What a great idea.

Mary Hamm (05:26)
It's so true. I feel a little left out this morning because I wore my Positivity shirt yesterday for our ⁓ Connect Learn Share event and I didn't want to re wear it today and I only have one, unlike some other people who have like a whole dresser filled, yes.

Jeff Liscum (05:27)
Very true.

Bill Dippel (05:31)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

A wardrobe. Yeah. I'd like you to think for a second that I'm that person, ⁓ but compared to other people on today's episode, I'm pretty certain my selection's gonna be minuscule. That's a guess. It's a guess.

Mary Hamm (05:54)
Okay, but we we're not gonna talk about our guests yet, right? No. No. I have a question for you first. Okay. Alright. So if your strengths could talk, Bill, not like you being you talking through your strengths, but like right. If there were like personifications

Bill Dippel (05:57)
We're not? Okay, let's not talk no. What else you got? You get I'm ready. Hit me with your question.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do you mean not talking through me if they could actually just talk? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mary Hamm (06:16)
Of the strengths, right? Like emotions and then inside out, right? W what would they be arguing about right now? Yeah. Or in general.

Bill Dippel (06:23)
At this minute, that ⁓ we went really long on the on the pre. So my my developer and my relationship themes are in argument right now with my with my get it done and and influencing themes of ⁓ why did we take so long to get kicked off today? And then my relationship themes are saying, but we love our guests today. Why why wouldn't we take longer? And then

Mary Hamm (06:49)
Ha ha ha

Bill Dippel (06:52)
My one relationship theme is actually my relator's a little pissed off because it says, You know Mary has a tight timeline today. So you're you have let Mary down. So those are my if you're talking about right at this minute, that's my that's my angst, my my feelings. So Yeah. Yeah. And how about you? if the if they are if they're in a pitchfork battle, what is it right now? like you think I'm not gonna ask you the question. Come.

Mary Hamm (07:08)
Okay. Okay. That's very interesting.

goodness. I see I wasn't counting on you. I know. I you always turn it on me. I really should come up with questions I like. You turn on me a lot, actually, Bill. I've been meaning to talk to you about that.

Bill Dippel (07:22)
Well, we turn it on each other, so yeah.

That's probably fair. Didn't you say somebody was upset last episode? They felt like they had to defend you yelling at the podcast.

Mary Hamm (07:32)
Yeah. Yeah. So she was listening to the episode with with John Grizzle and and where you guys are just beating me down. And she comes into work. It's my my work bestie. And she's like, I got a little defensive about you guys or about about you. She was like, I felt like I needed to defend you against Bill and John. So

Bill Dippel (07:47)
Ha ha.

wow. ⁓ you know, the fact she didn't come in ever and say, I need to defend Bill, he sounds like a pretty nice guy and you're hard on him. That ⁓ she's playing little favoritism. I'm just letting you know. Letting you know. So what are your themes screaming out right now? I'm ready.

Mary Hamm (08:03)
Well ⁓ let's see. My positivity is like stay positive, stay positive. You don't need to worry about what's to come later. You don't have to use all of your energy right now. It's gonna be fine. We're gonna be okay on this episode. Bring yourself together, Mary. Just kidding. I'm really excited about this episode. see there's the positivity talking. And then my arranger is like, what do I need to shift in my morning schedule in order to get everything done so that I can still be on time for my next time? And

be able to pick up my contacts before this weekend 'cause they close at noon. And so my arrangers like, what do I need a how do I do I just gonna be a little bit late to this next MCN gig that I have? Or like, what's happening? So they're arguing a little bit. Are these really just our internal thoughts that are just arguing with each other? Like is that all we're talking about here?

Bill Dippel (08:51)
yeah. Yeah, that's your ideation just going, you know, 'cause ideation's number five for you and you're just spinning it. the ideas are just, well, I'm late, here I go, but I got this and positivity's supercharging that. I think you're you know, I I I've gotten to know you pretty well this year, so

Mary Hamm (08:57)
⁓ yeah.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. And also my adaptability is like, who cares? It's gonna be fine. You're gonna get it all done. What are you worried about? Right. So and my futuristic is like, you already got it all done, Mayor. You're done. You already got it.

Bill Dippel (09:14)
It's okay. It's okay. Relax. You've got strategic everywhere.

You're good. You're good. You're good. There's another thing. I'm doing a I'm I'm pitching something coming up. So I need a slide deck and I'm I've prepped slides, but I haven't finished them. And I always I always like waiting 'cause more information comes and you know, so I justify it. But I unlike you, I don't feel like I got it done. Like I'm always thinking, Right, get go, get more, do it better, be more committed, get it done earlier, that way you can

Mary Hamm (09:30)
Uh-huh. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bill Dippel (09:47)
chew on it longer and then I don't and then things have to change and I feel better I didn't finit I don't know. I I'm a mess. Mary, thanks for bringing it up. Now I'm a mess. I don't even

Mary Hamm (09:52)
Yeah.

You're welcome. Well, when we look at strengths, we're really looking at like our natural ways of thinking, thinking, feeling, doing, right? And that's like in in the mental health context, like that's CBT in a nutshell. We look at how we think, how we feel, what we do. And so our our why do I talk about this every time this this family group is on our podcast here? Weird. There's something to this. Anyway, let's just skip over that and let's introduce our guests today. So

Bill Dippel (10:10)
Sure.

Pretty interesting. Yeah. Hmm.

Cool. I'm ready.

Mary Hamm (10:24)
I just wanna say, Mike, my husband, my lovely husband, if you're listening to this, this episode is dedicated to you today. Just kidding. I know you're listening. And he's listening on a Tuesday, probably morning. So there's that. and this is for you, Mike. So for weeks now, he's been listening to this beautiful season three of Strinks on Fire. And and he's been saying, You need people who aren't like you.

Bill Dippel (10:30)
If? What do you mean if your hus it are you saying your husband doesn't listen? Okay. All right.

Early. Ooh, nice. This episode's for you, Mike.

Mary Hamm (10:54)
On this podcast. You need people who are gonna be calm and who aren't gonna be like and he might not have used those words. That's my interpretation of what he said.

Bill Dippel (11:03)
Once again, misrepresenting your husband. Well done.

Mary Hamm (11:09)
And so anyway, our guest today is the ⁓ the one that that the reason I guess you're one of the reasons you're wearing your woo shirt, Mom, check out his woo shirt. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (11:21)
I'm sorry, this I just threw this on. I didn't yeah, no. Right. Yes.

Jeff Liscum (11:25)
Nice to be here. Nice be

Mary Hamm (11:26)
And and when our guest Heidi was speaking about Jeff, who's our guest, he she was saying how like opposite of sh her she is. Like they don't have anything that they share in their top fifteen. And that just kinda blew me away and I was like, We need him on here. so anyway, welcome to the show. Jeff, we're excited that you are here with us today. Tell us

Bill Dippel (11:40)
Yeah.

We do.

Ladies, ladies and gentlemen, the pinnacle of chill. Jeff is on the show today. Jeff, welcome. Welcome.

Jeff Liscum (11:55)
That you have gotten you you definitely did not get my wife when you invited me here She was in I know she was engaged from the moment you all turned the cameras on she was on go And I am not on go most of time

Bill Dippel (12:01)
⁓ we had

Yeah. That does Heidi does Heidi ever sh like shut down? I I mean, I love her. I I absolutely love your wife. She's having her on and having her go and ready and she came on and and it was a brilliant hair day with with both the women on the show and having her just jump right in and I I Heidi is one of my all time favorite people when I go to learn, connect, share and I keep connecting and loving. So

Mary Hamm (12:39)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (12:39)
It is.

Bill Dippel (12:40)
For our arsonists that don't that ⁓ haven't put it together yet, Heidi is the person I threw my credit card at multiple times to get a ⁓ to get a

Mary Hamm (12:49)
How you feel about that, Jeff?

Jeff Liscum (12:52)
I just laughed the whole time because she is like, do you do? What should we do? What should we do? What should we do? What should we do? What should we do?

Bill Dippel (13:00)
Yeah, do I sell it to him? Do I sell him this thing? I was trying to get a a woo bag tag. The good news is I threw it at Heidi and Jeff's the one that took it and ran it. So we both know. Yeah, Jeff Yeah.

Mary Hamm (13:10)
That's that's a twist to the story I did not know.

Jeff Liscum (13:12)
He said George whatever and I was like bet that's that's

Bill Dippel (13:14)
I was like, I gotta own it.

Mary Hamm (13:15)
You're like, Heidi, we're going to Hawaii this fall.

Bill Dippel (13:18)
Mm-hmm. I think I I bought you guys lunch that day. wait, lunch was free. so good. All right. ⁓ Jeff, welcome to the show. We love, we love having you. And it your wife was fascinating and wonderful to have on. And then we heard, well, Jeff really wants to come on. And and why would we not? I mean, come on, have the have the pinnacle of chill on with us today. I love it. So Jeff.

Jeff Liscum (13:19)
We got a nice vacation out of it.

Mary Hamm (13:21)
Ha ha

Jeff Liscum (13:29)
Thank you guys.

Mary Hamm (13:36)
Right.

Pinnacle of chill.

Jeff Liscum (13:44)
you

Bill Dippel (13:45)
Why don't you kick us off today and talk about can you give us your top five, maybe your top ten, so the listeners can hear ⁓ while we start diving into what we're talking about.

Jeff Liscum (13:54)
Absolutely, absolutely. So my top strengths number one strategic number two's were later three individualization fours analytical Context is number five intellectuals number six You've got connectedness at seven deliberative at eight ideation at nine and harmony at ten and I have commanded 11 I would say that one because I always say command command like comes over the top Yeah

Bill Dippel (14:15)
Love working with him.

because you have no influencing anywhere else. So sure, I get it. Yeah.

Mary Hamm (14:24)
⁓ Bill, did you hear what he said was his number five?

Bill Dippel (14:26)
Yes.

⁓ I did. Why are you how do I feel about it? Well, I was just gonna I was gonna point out as number three as one of the best, 'cause it's my number one. I absolutely love high individualization people. Look, look, no, look, context context people have to be on the earth. I it's okay. I don't I don't need to define somebody purely by context. My thirty-four Jeff. I

Mary Hamm (14:31)
How do you f what? How do you feel about that?

Okay, but this is our first one that has had context high.

Bill Dippel (14:55)
I can't live in the past. I don't understand what happened half an hour ago. I mean, have we been on this show and talked pre show? I don't even remember. The co for me, the past is so inconsequential, I don't I don't understand any part of it. So how does context play out for you, Jeff? Just give us a quick quick brief for that. Are you do you find context pretty heavy in your life? The the thoughts that the past are gonna define what you do today?

Jeff Liscum (15:20)
So it does play heavy. I don't feel like I fall under what people will maybe stereotypically say. You have a time in history. I don't have a favorite time in history.

Mary Hamm (15:32)
Ha ha.

Jeff Liscum (15:33)
I look at history as trying to understand more because of because of my relational strengths I look at the history of the relationship of people So it is how the dynamics of those people related to each other and how that plays into the role of us today or me today That's the thing that I look at so I will constantly watch something that has to do with you know, who the people were or

I'll watch, I can really get fascinated on like how something got made historically. that's analytical, analytical number four. it's like, wow. Did you know that the history of the bottle top cap, how it started?

Bill Dippel (16:08)
yeah. I love how how how it's made. Yeah.

Mary Hamm (16:09)
Yeah, yeah.

Ha

Jeff Liscum (16:20)
I like.

Bill Dippel (16:20)
Amazing. Did you happen to see the how it's made on tinfoil? Have you so it they start with a like a six ton block of aluminum and they keep running it through rollers to make it smaller and smaller and smaller. I mean it's a it's the size of a car when they start and it ends up so I am I know. I was absolutely fascinated when I saw that the fr and I

Mary Hamm (16:24)
Stop it.

Jeff Liscum (16:24)
I did not see that one.

yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mary Hamm (16:39)
What?

Jeff Liscum (16:41)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (16:44)
I they keep narrowing it, narrowing it, and pushing it and pushing it, and then it turns thinner and thinner and then eventually they cut it and then they keep narrowing it and thinning it. Un un I was like, who thought of taking a car sized piece of aluminum and turning it into So I guess contextually I'm not completely at a loss, Jeff, but I you know, I do want to point out you said ⁓ I I'm not really concerned about a specific time of history, right? That's because with all the context you have, all of history is great.

Jeff Liscum (16:45)
Hmm

Mary Hamm (16:58)
Right.

Bill Dippel (17:13)
For you, it's it's all wonderful. For me, none of it is great. I I have no idea what happened to ten four, you know, when I hear an amazing fact, I think, now that I gotta remember. That's a story. So, but let's talk about a really much more important one for you. Individualization. I I think that's a pretty good one for you, Jeff. How does your individualization play out for you?

Mary Hamm (17:19)
Except for the history of tinfoil.

my goodness. ⁓

Jeff Liscum (17:40)
I am probably the strongest believer that I want to understand every individual and every person and even Mary.

Bill Dippel (17:49)
Even Mary? I mean that's tough. Tough. All right.

Mary Hamm (17:52)
Even Mary.

Jeff Liscum (17:55)
I am, I would say I cut against the grain when it comes to everything. So if you say everyone does this, I do that. ⁓ I will be the total opposite of everything just out of spite, I think sometimes. But it's also to know that there's to say every everyone does something a certain way or it is just is this way that.

that ties automatically into my analytical, why is it that way? Why does it have to be that way? So I question to the nth degree everything and I believe that that is analytical, yes, but individualization, like why can't we separate it out? Why can't it be done a different way? It needs to be done a different way just because.

Bill Dippel (18:24)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mary Hamm (18:25)
Mm.

Bill Dippel (18:38)
G great, great definition of individualization. And I it as my number one, I feel the same way. Everything there's a reason and I'm gonna find it, but I also wanna point out why it's different from the reason for that. And ⁓ that's true for people, that's true for circumstances, true for working on projects, how they're very unique and very different, which sometimes can mire me down. Sometimes I'm thinking it's so unique, I may not have that tool set. So it

Mary Hamm (18:41)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (18:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (19:06)
can get in my way. Do you experience that sometimes where that that might crop up for you?

Jeff Liscum (19:09)
Hmm.

It was, it is something that, that amazingly enough through coaching and getting into, this industry allowed really helped me see that that would, that really got him, I think in my way with other people, like everything doesn't have to be finite. There are reasons for rules of course. ⁓ And it's to get things done and to keep kind of keep the herd moving, so to speak. So in that aspect, you gotta have some kind of, you know,

buffers on the sides of things. But then it doesn't always have to go like linear and that line has always been going on. Why can't we deviate from that and consider something else? Doesn't mean we have to do it, but consider it. And that's usually where I was butt heads, butted heads with people for so many years is I would just say we have to. And it's like, we don't have to.

Bill Dippel (19:52)
Yeah. Love it.

Mary Hamm (20:00)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (20:02)
Yeah. I love it. Mary, did you hear that? Sometimes sometimes there's should be buffers on things. I don't did you pick up on that? I'm just

Mary Hamm (20:03)
Do you usually have an idea for a

Bill, listen. It's been a long week, okay? No, I'm just kidding. But ⁓ do you think do you think that is supercharged by your strategic, Jeff?

Bill Dippel (20:16)
Yes. I know. I know. It's been tough.

Jeff Liscum (20:24)
absolutely, absolutely. mean, strategic number one just kind of leads everything, you know, down the, down the pathway. ⁓ I, I think individualization and strategic is that's my, describe it this way. Individualization for me is how I bring strategic from 30,000 feet down to 10 feet off the ground to the individual.

Bill Dippel (20:52)
Really well said.

Mary Hamm (20:53)
Did you talk about that over dinner with Heidi?

Jeff Liscum (20:56)
So not this time. She's just we talk about it a lot. We've always talked about it, I feel like. But it is one of the things for me that why I think I would say I stand out, talk to other people with strategic. People say they people just don't get what I'm talking about. like, don't I don't even understand that statement because I describe it this way. I'm my description to everyone is I am literally thinking of a Rubik's Cube.

to get you to see it the way you need to see it. So I spin it really fast until you see what I'm talking about. And if you didn't get it, I will spin it again and spin it again and spin it again until I find the color that matches your understanding of the idea. So that's why I say from the 30,000 to the 10, I will keep going until I literally land it for you.

Mary Hamm (21:31)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So is that yeah. Yeah. ⁓ that's really good. I really like that. I don't have individualization at all. So wow. I have other things. my goodness.

Bill Dippel (21:47)
Wow. That's that's pretty depth. That's some that's got some meat to it there, Mary. I like that.

Jeff Liscum (21:50)
You

Bill Dippel (21:55)
Yeah. Shame. I mean shame really. I pff yeah.

Jeff Liscum (21:59)
Okay, everyone can be blessed. That's okay.

Bill Dippel (22:04)
See ya, Mary. It's been fun.

Jeff Liscum (22:05)
I'm out.

Mary Hamm (22:06)
⁓ you know what? It's okay. It's about time for me to go anyway. I thanks for having me on the show, guys. I appreciate your time.

Jeff Liscum (22:09)
You ⁓

Bill Dippel (22:14)
What was her name? I again I can't remember. I my context is so low. Who Jeff, I hear a voice. So something's going on. I think we're getting some feedback. I don't. she was

Jeff Liscum (22:15)
come back. The lady that came in came on the show. She was really nice, I think.

She seemed to be really nice, huh?

Mary Hamm (22:24)
Hey, listen, my work Bessie is going to come and hunt you down. ⁓ my goodness. ⁓ okay. Jeff, you said that you wanted to come on the show because you had some things that you wanted to talk about that may not be the thing that people normally talk about regarding strengths. Hit us with it.

Bill Dippel (22:28)
You know, fun while she was here. That's all I remember. Go on.

Jeff Liscum (22:36)
Yes.

Bill Dippel (22:48)
Well, and actually, Jeff, right before you start that, can you tell us about the strength shop for a second? 'Cause I was gonna say it might tie in, it might not. So I was thinking, because you are a you're a certified strengths coach, we understand that. But we were joking early on about if only somebody made shirts with strengths goods on them or other goodies. So hit us with that really, really fast and then absolutely jump into Mary's request on the on on what you're looking at today. So

Mary Hamm (22:55)
⁓

Jeff Liscum (23:11)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Absolutely. So you had Heidi on, but yeah, so we started being coaches. Heidi had this awakening, truly awakening one night that said, why is there not a shirt? Why is there not some kind of apparel or items that we can as coaches leave with clients and have them use and their offices when we walk out the door? Because as coaches, we all know that, you know, we're there for a great presentations. We may do one on one, but when we walk out the door, what is left in the environment to keep the kind of the fire going?

And so we thought we needed a shirt and there wasn't one. And so we had conversations with Gallup and got approvals to design and develop apparel and merchandise. so stretch shirts were our first foray into the space. So we had shirts and then now we have ink pens like this, we have positivity pens like that one. And, and so we, we really were kind of shocked that

Mary Hamm (24:07)
Hmm.

Bill Dippel (24:07)
Mm.

Jeff Liscum (24:13)
There wasn't anything like this. So even though we're coaches, we thought this is a great opportunity and it's been a kind of roller coaster.

Bill Dippel (24:18)
Yeah. I'm sorry, Jeff, I'm I'm wearing a woo shirt today from your competitor. I guess that can't be true. There is no competition, so I'm just saying so. Yep.

Jeff Liscum (24:25)
That is there is no competitor if we are the only one in the entire world that actually has strengths apparel and most of the merchandise we have is truly ours and also I think one of the best things about that we kind of hang our hat on is we have Icons and designs that go with every strength. So my strength my strategic has the map kind of logo with it Bills woo, you may not be able to see it but bills woo the W actually has a hand waving

Mary Hamm (24:26)
⁓ wait.

Wow.

Bill Dippel (24:50)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Liscum (24:55)
for Lou. And positivity has the sun.

Bill Dippel (24:59)
Nice. Very nice.

Jeff Liscum (25:00)
So we were really kind of meticulous and kind of with icons that kind of mirrored and matched every strength. So again, it was just something that made it functional and you could talk about it. when someone sees it, they can say, what is the little map thing? Or what's the hand for the sun? So you really can talk about it from your own perspective on what it actually means for you. just wanted it to be interactive for people.

Bill Dippel (25:17)
Right.

I love it. And I I I love I bought several of these from from your group. ⁓ I think the logo I really appreciate is my number two strength, which is developer. And I love it. It's very subtle. It has a little just a little budding plant above developer coming out that I'm like I'm feeding or seeding something that's gonna grow. I I think it's brilliant, Jeff. I really do.

Mary Hamm (25:26)
You did a great job.

Jeff Liscum (25:36)
Mm-hmm.

It is gonna tell you guys so in the whole process of putting these things together like the conversations Heidi and I had and putting putting those together and everything that we have even coming out will have mugs coming out soon. They even have descriptions of your strengths on the mug, but the but that description actually is a representation of the drink in the cup for that strength. So like woos you love this because.

Mary Hamm (26:07)
cool.

Ha ha.

Jeff Liscum (26:16)
Beals here will say who's is my cup is back. My cup is better than yours. There you go.

Bill Dippel (26:24)
My cup is better than yours. I mean I'm just, you know, I don't want to say I drink for you know, professionally, but ⁓ yeah. I wow. That's that's actually really, really, really cool. So all right.

Mary Hamm (26:33)
That's cute. So the mugs will just have the one strength still, not like you can't just get like your top five or anything. Okay.

Jeff Liscum (26:35)
Yeah.

Have one strength, right, Craig will just be the one strength and and and will have the strength on one side and the and the phrase on the opposite side. So no matter who's whether you're drinking it facing you or the one your face is someone they will have something to see. Again, we're trying to create dialogue with the mug. It's all about. It's all about continuing the conversation in the space.

Mary Hamm (26:47)
Okay.

Conversation. Yeah, yeah.

Would you say it's all about communication as I hold up my communication pen with a microphone on it? I know.

Jeff Liscum (27:02)
Communication, Wow, Bill, look at that.

Bill Dippel (27:03)
Mm. Wow.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Jeff, she's doing all she can to stay on the podcast. We'll ⁓ we'll we'll grade her later, see how that works. It does. It does. It merchandising is really good on you, Mary, today. You've you've rocked it. You rocked it well. All right. And and Mary was absolutely correct. Jeff, you wanted to come on today, talk strengths ⁓ unfiltered. Hit us, hit us with something in the in the strengths world as a coach or maybe in as a

Jeff Liscum (27:15)
Merchandise helps. Merchandise helps you stay.

Mary Hamm (27:16)
Greens

Thank you, thank you.

Bill Dippel (27:37)
as a retailer of of strengths based ⁓ equipment or whatever in other ways that maybe strengths didn't work as advertised. Something fell down, something became an excuse. What have you noticed that you thought would be something we're we're gonna kick around today on the show?

Jeff Liscum (27:52)
So I looked at being strengths on the fire and strengths are actually not a predictor of job effectiveness, a job placement for people.

Bill Dippel (28:00)
is this about Heidi? Are we gonna talk about Heidi?

Jeff Liscum (28:04)
Maybe. It might have something to with her.

Mary Hamm (28:07)
I will defend her to my death.

Bill Dippel (28:11)
I yeah, I'm sorry, I just had to throw that one in there. I know she's listening she'll listen to this after and be like, You know, I'm gonna kill him. I am gonna kill him. So all right.

Jeff Liscum (28:12)
You

Mary Hamm (28:19)
No more woo tags for him.

Jeff Liscum (28:21)
No. You're good. So with that, know, I think when we all kind of got into strengths, ⁓ there would be people that would just describe a strength of, this strength is great for this job, or this strength, meaning is good for doing this at work, or if she's had the strength of whatever, then she's will be good at performing this job.

Bill Dippel (28:23)
Sorry, go sorry, Jeff. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (28:47)
What I truly came to, not just know and understand, but actually analytical being in my top five is I wanted empirical evidence of that. And so because of using strengths, I walked in learning some of the preconceived, quote unquote, preconceived ideas about what strengths do and where the roles fit. But it really was my...

Adoption and using of which isn't promoted as much from gal me more was actually VP 10 actually was my foundation for this and and what it showed us is though my strength may operate on the I call it out on the street a Certain way when I get on the field when I get in the office You can show that strength can will show up a lot of times a lot different than it has we may understand it to be Performing so to say someone has a particular quote-unquote strength

Bill Dippel (29:21)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Liscum (29:43)
doesn't mean that it's going to be, it's gonna succeed or be the thing that makes people be successful in a certain role. And at the same time, because other people have had a strength in a role, doesn't mean that someone who doesn't have those strengths doesn't show up and perform in those roles. And so ⁓ I worked in particular with an office team that has salespeople. And...

Mary Hamm (29:58)
Mm, yeah.

Jeff Liscum (30:08)
The general manager who was exceptional at hiring people, that is a talent skill all within itself, he hired someone that ⁓ joined his team. He says, this guy's going be really good at this. But he didn't resemble the salespeople they had. And so when we looked at now with him, he said, help me understand this, because his instincts were so, so spot on with people. It was ridiculous.

Bill Dippel (30:36)
Well, he was a conductor, that's why. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (30:38)
He was, he was a conductor, truly was. He truly was. But what he, what he, what he was is he, he is, and I always, and I do this, I talk sports analogies, the strategic and attend to 10 feet. He, he was the type of coach that knew which players need to be at which spot on the field for their maximum performance. So you may have thought I'm going to be quote unquote, a wide receiver. says, no, you need to be better on defense and in a defensive position on an offensive position.

Mary Hamm (30:40)
I see you, Bill.

Jeff Liscum (31:08)
And when he did that kind of maneuvering with people, had a guy to leave his current office in his state, moved to another state, doing the same job, but different. And that state, he excelled to become a national sales leader at that office. He couldn't do it in this state because what they sold just wasn't a fit for that market. He needed to be in the market, but the heat and he sold just stay a year, stay a year, stay a year. That guy left, excelled.

Mary Hamm (31:27)
Mm.

well.

Jeff Liscum (31:36)
So bring that forward is he has a new sales rep in his office. He says this guy I know he's gonna make it but what he's just something's different. And so we sat down, I looked at their team and I said, my goodness, his salespeople are made up of, you guys will love this, they're influencing strengths.

So when you look at, and so we have two guys and I call them Matt and Matt one, Matt one has six influencing strengths. Yeah, actual name. So you have two Matt's. you have the current Matt that's worked there and the new Matt shows up. The old Matt has six influencing strengths. So I'll just, I'll read off some of the strengths he has. So Matt over here, he has a cheat. He has activated number one, competition number two.

Bill Dippel (32:02)
Mm-hmm.

Mary Hamm (32:04)
Are those actually his names? Okay.

Jeff Liscum (32:25)
Communication 3, Achiever, Maximizer, Futuristic, Woo, Positivity, Individualization, and Significance, all in the top 10. Been there for years, doing great. The new math shows up. Analytical number 1, Relator, Deliberative, Harmony, Restorative, Empathy, Responsibility, Intellectual, Developer, and Command.

Mary Hamm (32:49)
no.

Bill Dippel (32:51)
How the d w was there a little bumping of the heads, perhaps?

Jeff Liscum (32:54)
So very much so because the manager has the this is the gentleman the actual manager of the team His strengths are achievers strategic command communication competition futuristic significance focus and woo again

Bill Dippel (33:10)
Well, you have to give the you have to give the overall manager credit for hiring somebody that broke the mold.

Jeff Liscum (33:16)
Well, was the That was the manager of the team, not the general manager. The general manager is who hired him.

Bill Dippel (33:21)
⁓ all right. All right. 'Cause I've had to I've had to coach around that where you keep hiring yourself or somebody that rocks the boat and then you finally brought in somebody different and had great success with that. So so yeah, go on.

Jeff Liscum (33:25)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So that was the thing is, I always tell people like attracts like. And that would be the high end. So in our conversations with that actual manager that oversaw these guys, I said, you need to stop. We basically told him you need to quit hiring people. Because he was hiring himself over and over again without success because he wasn't a good picker. But that wasn't his business building talent. I'll just throw that on there. That wasn't his ability.

Mary Hamm (33:51)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (33:51)
Over and over. Yeah.

Mary Hamm (33:57)
Because he was just looking for

Bill Dippel (33:59)
Right. Right.

Jeff Liscum (34:02)
He wasn't a conductor. So what happened is, is the second, the second Matt built relationships through selling. The other Matt worked all, he worked all the conventions, he knocked on the doors, he went to all the social events. This Matt worked his network. And they, and so they were high, they worked in the financial service industry. So you're talking about somebody who did have to, you know, have, you know, high, high income.

Mary Hamm (34:12)
Yes he did.

Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (34:31)
Clients but because of one client that he built a relationship with and introduce him to another client Anderson to another client Anderson another client and there's another client that's how he built his business up the other one was I Would say he would just kind of knock on doors get this. Hey, how you doing? How's make the connection? Handshake get the agreement sign the paperwork. He's on the next one. The first guy saw himself as I'm gonna be with you for life

Mary Hamm (34:42)
Right.

Jeff Liscum (34:58)
That's how he saw himself with them. I will be with you till the end.

Mary Hamm (35:00)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (35:04)
but he didn't build his relationships. And instantaneously, so the quote unquote six to 12 months, you know, make it or break it, he was a long burn into that process. So the general manager goes, my God, he says, Jeff, because of what you've told me, I knew he was good, but you've saved me a quarter million dollars in just hiring.

Mary Hamm (35:12)
Right.

Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (35:30)
because you've now solved an issue for me because I knew he was good. I just couldn't, I couldn't show it on the spreadsheet immediately. Correct.

Bill Dippel (35:38)
Immediately. Yeah. He ha

Mary Hamm (35:39)
So he wasn't getting like his number, he wasn't hitting his quotas immediately or anything because he was building those relationships. Yeah. Right.

Bill Dippel (35:43)
He had to build right.

Jeff Liscum (35:46)
he had to build it. Didn't mean that he wouldn't be good at the job because he was good at the job. It just didn't as the you know as as as the person who goes out there and and I would say this you know they're they're kissing hands and shaking babies. That's what they're out there doing. Bill got that.

Mary Hamm (35:51)
Right.

Those wooers.

Bill Dippel (36:03)
it was good. it was good. I wrote it down.

Jeff Liscum (36:08)
So though he wasn't that kind of salesperson which was the traditional hire person he met the metrics of being a salesperson Quote-unquote, but it's his style in his way wasn't it. So When we say certain strengths are good fits for certain roles That was apparent that was just definitely apparent to us that when I looked at like that's not exactly a fit all the time you can't say influencing strengths are your

quotable salespeople. These strategic thinking people aren't necessarily your behind the scenes book people. Or your relationship people are not necessarily great managers because they have feeling, they have, they understand people. That isn't a fit inside the office. You do have to understand how they apply that strength in the workplace because someone who is high strategic or high input doesn't necessarily

Mary Hamm (36:39)
Right.

Jeff Liscum (37:07)
think strategically for business ordinarily all the time. So you've got to know how they use that strength inside your four walls, not just because they have a strength. It then replicates inside your four walls. Though what happens is, I call it Monday morning quarterbacking, we will say, my goodness, here's Bill, he's high woo, he's high individualization. He just knows people and knows how to.

Bill Dippel (37:11)
Right. Yeah.

Mary Hamm (37:19)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (37:32)
He he's perfect.

Jeff Liscum (37:34)
He knows he feels he's perfect and just knows how to talk to people. now we. And then we see the other person come in who, guess what? They have high woo and high individualization, but they do not use them in the same aspect for the selling aspect of business. They do it for the communication aspect of people. They woo the inside people over, not the outside people over. So where they focus it and direct it is internally.

Mary Hamm (37:38)
He feels he's perfect.

Jeff Liscum (38:04)
not externally.

Bill Dippel (38:07)
Interesting. Yeah, interesting.

Mary Hamm (38:07)
So how would you use this for like I I mean, in an interview process then when you're trying to pull somebody onto your team, no like asking the right questions that get you the right answers in order to know, Hey, is this person going to be a good asset for the team regardless of what their strengths are?

Jeff Liscum (38:21)
You

I actually don't go, I go before that. Is this person the right person to be hiring?

Mary Hamm (38:31)
Okay.

Right.

Jeff Liscum (38:35)
because the person selecting is, if you're using the strength as a selection tool, you've already failed.

Mary Hamm (38:43)
Right.

Jeff Liscum (38:43)
You want to you want to, but what you do want to know is how are they applying that strength when they're at work? Right? So if you are going to add a bridge that question, like how would you find yourself, you know, using your woo or how would you use your strategic out here or your individualization? That is something for them to describe to the to the person. ⁓ and then have them explain back to them how they're using it. It isn't.

Mary Hamm (38:50)
Right, right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jeff Liscum (39:12)
Going to tell you exactly how they do it. This was if I would say. The cheat code was when the builder profile showed me if they were high selling or not. Because that's actually is that actually is a talent for someone and that then showed me that they would be good at selling.

Mary Hamm (39:32)
So would it be safe to say that it's okay to use a BP ten for hiring purposes?

Bill Dippel (39:32)
Interesting. So

Jeff Liscum (39:39)
It was.

Bill Dippel (39:41)
And in the BP ten, risk is one of the other ⁓ ranks, ⁓ or you know, along with confidence and delegator. ⁓ how did risk play into the selling component? Would risk would risk naturally, I guess, move you towards more sales, less sales? Was risk something you had to com ⁓ to contemplate when thinking of the selling component?

Jeff Liscum (40:04)
No, so risk for selling, would be more, what you would look at is you look at people with selling and confidence. And relationship, from a selling point of view. This particular one person was high selling, high relationship that had the relationship strengths. Relationship is about knowing what relationships you need for business purposes and business outcomes. Risk looked at what was actually gonna be risk.

Mary Hamm (40:29)
Mm.

Jeff Liscum (40:32)
What was the opportunities out there in the market space? Not necessarily to the person, like that person's a good opportunity all the time. Selling looked at you, let me get you to say the yes to me. I know what to say to you to appeal to your yes side of you. The confidence would also just be like, I know what I'm talking about, you trust me because you hear it coming out of me. I just exude confidence and people say they're confident. They can be confident, but not good at selling.

Mary Hamm (40:57)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (41:02)
But if they had the combination, you could see where that person would be really good at talking with people.

Bill Dippel (41:08)
Right. And for our arsonists, we're we've strayed a bit out of the normal thirty-four that we talk about in the Gallup Clifton strengths. We're using some new terms for and that's totally okay. It's great. ⁓ normal it's selling is not a theme in the Gallup thirty-four, risk is not, ⁓ profitability is not, ⁓ conductor I mentioned earlier is also not. We're discussing a different Gallup product called BP ten for ⁓

Mary Hamm (41:08)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ha ha ha

Jeff Liscum (41:17)
I know, I'm sorry.

Mary Hamm (41:19)
Ha ha ha.

Bill Dippel (41:38)
For something that Jeff and Heidi have taken on. And the the ⁓ builder profile called BP10, Builder Profile 10, allows you to look at a different metric and a different idea around how business you bring a certain aspect to business and selling and and ⁓ the business world as opposed to Gallup, Clifton Strengths, which goes psychometrically a little differently and deeper about how you do some of the things you do, how you step into that.

Mary Hamm (41:57)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (42:05)
B P ten's really built from a Gallup point of view around strictly around the business ideals. Jeff, did I did I do that correctly or

Jeff Liscum (42:11)
That's a great explanation. That's a great explanation. And why it ties into the fire, circling all the way back around to that, it totally obliterated what I had come to understand as far as strengths in the work environment, as far as who fit the role purely off of their strengths. And what it did is it gave me, it solidified that, not for me to say, I don't feel it.

Mary Hamm (42:13)
That was lovely.

Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (42:40)
No, I could see it. Like I could see why this person's high in building teams up and has a good ability to do it where the next person who comes in with those same actual Clifton strengths didn't do it as well. And it would leave you kind of bewildered and you're like, why does it not? I mean, they had five or six, yeah, they had five or six the same strengths. I thought that was a perfect match.

Mary Hamm (43:01)
Yeah, why are they not doing the same thing?

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (43:08)
Well, no, because they approach even, I say this, even as an influencer, you approach the room differently, even in selling for your own strength needs. So that's what I learned is it's an individual strength desire, not just that I have communication or competition or command or woo or act. That didn't actually mean that you used it as for a business outcome per se.

Mary Hamm (43:16)
Right.

So we're really looking at the how then of these things. How do you do X, Y, and Z? And so the BP ten gives some more in insight into that that how.

Jeff Liscum (43:38)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

It gave it a lot of how and what it what it allowed allowed you to actually notice is when you have say a manager that is just trying really hard. I talked about the manager second ago how he was told not to hire people. He was he was intuitively hiring himself through his seeing his strengths and every hiring he had five hires in a row that didn't make it. And that was before I ever.

Mary Hamm (44:09)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (44:15)
And when I walked in and sat with him, we sat with him, we said, your hiring has been pretty bad, hasn't it? Personally, he said, how'd you know that? You are using your own strengths, strong in your interview and you hear yourself. So when he heard his competition and communication through that strength, he would get lit up. This is my guy. This is my lady.

Mary Hamm (44:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (44:44)
that I need to hire, not knowing that would they perform with that strength in the role as well. And they didn't, but he wasn't as good at it. So if you say just hire, if you think of listening for the strength, you're listening for your strength first or through your strength.

Mary Hamm (44:51)
Right.

Well, and we do that too. Like, even when I looked at your profiles, like, what do we have in common? Right. Like we look for the the similarities with us. When I'm having a conversation, I'm I'm I'm listening for what what do I understand? What makes sense, right? And so if we can start broadening then of like listening outside of who we are and being able to you know, ⁓ Micah says that the more that we can know about ourselves, the more we can step out of the way and be

Jeff Liscum (45:11)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mary Hamm (45:34)
with other people, right? so I think that was her anyway that said it. I've coined it as as something that I say all the time now. thank you. I mean Mary says ⁓ I do. I I like quote people all the time, different words. Dr. Seuss did, I can too. ⁓ but but that idea of like we have we if we're really trying to be present with somebody or interviewing somebody or hiring somebody or managing somebody, we can't just hear them from our

Jeff Liscum (45:39)
Stick with it, stick with it.

Bill Dippel (45:41)
Go with it. Mary just makes up stuff. Mary makes up anything she wants. So it's y yep.

Jeff Liscum (45:46)
You're on a roll, you're on a roll.

Mary Hamm (46:03)
perspective of who we are, but but really listening for like where do they shine, where where's their their sweet spot here. ⁓ but also we have we only have two in common in our top ten Jeff, in case you're wondering

Jeff Liscum (46:17)
Well, that's what the way I would describe it is our strengths kind of work as just like wheels that work together. And that is our I say this is how we dance together. is our this is how we work together, understand each other. Does that motion and that action actually work well in our work environment for the work outcomes? That is a different question.

Mary Hamm (46:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (46:47)
And that's a different, something that works differently. And I always say like in between the four walls is, as a sports analogy, I would say if we see Shaquille O'Neal, he's a big, playful, lovable character. And when we see him, like, my God, he's like a big, giant teddy bear. He's just the best. Until you put a basketball in his hand and he puts those gym shoes on, you're like, you're looking at truly Mac Diesel. He's a truck. Like, don't get in his way.

Mary Hamm (46:52)
Mm.

Yeah.

Watch out.

Jeff Liscum (47:17)
Right? But in that space, he's a different person. That's the same with us. So he may be, we'll just give him some strengths. He may be strategic. He may have competition. He may have empathy. He may notice that, ⁓ I can feel that you're intimidated. So I'm gonna take advantage of that. I'm gonna use that in this space. I'm gonna come up with a strategy. I'm gonna fly to change my game.

Mary Hamm (47:17)
Mm.

Yeah.

Right.

Jeff Liscum (47:45)
to take you on the court. But does that mean everyone who has those same strengths share that same outcome drive for that to score? That's not necessarily the case.

Bill Dippel (47:58)
Point. Yeah. Great, great point. I I actually stood behind Shaquille O'Neal ⁓ once at a Lakers game. So that'll tell you ⁓ how long ago I was a Lakers fan. ⁓ well no, I I stood behind him like during a break. I was walking, ⁓ I had you know good seats that had access to the floor. So I walked behind him on the bench and it's I'm s I'm six four, two hundred and thirty, two hundred and forty pounds. I don't feel small in most rooms.

Mary Hamm (48:08)
You couldn't see anything, huh? You didn't see it.

Jeff Liscum (48:08)
You didn't see the game. You were there.

Bill Dippel (48:26)
And I walked behind that bench. It wasn't just Shaquille, but I happened to be right next to Shaquille. And I'm like, I'm not even a shadow in this where I'm standing. I I I don't even exist in this realm. I I I I I remember that and thinking, wow, I I nobody nobody could even begin to see me in this in this realm here. And I I I don't normally feel that way. And I I loved it. ⁓ getting to your point around ⁓ companies and how they

Jeff Liscum (48:35)
Right.

Yeah.

Bill Dippel (48:56)
work and and how they might hire in the wrong ways. Very similar to your experience. I had a company, ⁓ a logistics company in town that was constantly hiring influencers. And they they weren't using the strengths assessment to do it. They were just hiring the same person over and over again. And they knew this because it during the interview they would listen and they would, you're really go go. You're, you know, you're you're willing to kick open the door and influence and

you know, be competitive and, you know, be self-assured and have that confidence to come in. And so they kept hiring it. And then they brought me in to talk about why they could only hit a certain number of customers. Right. There was a wide variety of customers that just never used them. And we had them rethink and recalculate, start hiring people that they weren't initially comfortable looking at hiring, people with relationship skills, people with maybe some executing skills.

Jeff Liscum (49:49)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (49:55)
And it made all the difference in the world for them. They they exploded financially. And the the owner will tell me on a regular basis, the one thing we changed was bring you in and talk about what this difference looks like for us. So I completely bond with the point you're making and understand, you know, they weren't even using strengths as a hiring tool, but they were they had a pretty significant hiring bias. And that bias played out in a in a pretty

⁓ deadly way for them if they had kept on that track and I think it opening them up really worked w worked wonders for them.

Jeff Liscum (50:32)
Well, is, strengths can be used, I would say this, the preconceived notion of certain strengths in certain roles was very, I would say was shattered through the process. But to your point, it allows them and allows you to describe to people where if you open yourself up to other options and not be just,

Bill Dippel (50:59)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Liscum (51:02)
when you hear yourself and this person, my God, this is a great person, because you heard your strength. And that really was kind of the break of the conversation was, I'm analytical, so I use the empirical data information with them. But then when we went over your strengths of competition, communication, these are the things you were hearing from those people, he said, my gosh, I didn't know that. And I know he didn't. They went.

Mary Hamm (51:27)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (51:28)
They use strengths in the organization. have their top five and they would say, is my strength, know, the hanging on their door, all those things, but it was never under, yeah, now they can get the shirt. couldn't then. They say, can buy it. We actually now can buy the t-shirt. But they just would go over the top five and talk about their strength, but never really got an understanding how they.

Mary Hamm (51:37)
They have the shirt.

Bill Dippel (51:45)
Mm.

Jeff Liscum (51:58)
were using the strengths, then also where their own strength, lens or bias would show up. And once that happened, though he did hire some more people after that, he recognized I am keen in on certain questions of their questionnaire as to that to me makes a good dot, dot, Because that's how he would have answered the questions. Didn't mean that they could perform it.

Mary Hamm (52:19)
Right.

Bill Dippel (52:23)
Sure, sure.

Jeff Liscum (52:25)
And so that just helped him to expand. And what it also allowed him to do is get other people into the hiring process in his organization. So when someone would go, I'm not sure that person's a good hire. He didn't automatically just outright defend it, which is what always happens. If I made the choice, I have to defend the choice I came up with.

Mary Hamm (52:49)
Yeah. And if he was always choosing himself, of course you're gonna defend it, right? No, they're really great.

Jeff Liscum (52:56)
And so one of the things when I'll coach people, I've said this is whatever question you asked and the answer you came up with at the time was the best question and the best answer available to you. So if I were to tell you come up with a better question than what you came up with, you can't because that was the best question and the best answer. So how can you tell me I need to do something

in better way than I did it because that was the best because that was my best. Not to say that it's bad, it just wasn't the right question and answer for the solution you're looking for. So if you were to consider, if I consider maybe Mary's question and answer, that was one I wasn't going to ask because it wasn't my best question and answer. So let me consider Mary's and it's out out.

Bill Dippel (53:31)
Gotcha.

Jeff Liscum (53:53)
will say this, it's the consideration I need to become more aware of. As long as you can consider, you can change. But if you never get to where you can consider, you really will never change what your thought processes are.

Mary Hamm (54:07)
So that's a lot about like being curious too then, right? Okay. Yeah. Do you hear that, Bill? So you should consider some of the questions I ask.

Jeff Liscum (54:10)
Mm-hmm. Being very curious. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (54:17)
I'm sorry my audio cut out. I didn't I there wasn't a

I Jeff, I'm gonna take a stab at this in the B P ten nomenclature. You're an expert and Heidi's a rainmaker.

Jeff Liscum (54:32)
So no, no, no, you took a stab at no, So that was actually a conversation she and I had. So when I sat down with her, that was something that it really helped her in, at the time in her business, before we ever got married and got together is I sat down with her and I said, you're a conductor, high selling. Now what that was meant was that she sold.

Bill Dippel (54:34)
it was a good I took a stab I took a stab at it. I yeah, okay.

Mary Hamm (54:35)
So no, I'm

You're a hmm

Jeff Liscum (55:01)
thinking about people first, not to the idea or the business development. So what happened is she says, but I want to be, I said, everybody wants to be. And I always do this, I say this, everyone who buys a football wants to be the quarterback.

If I buy a basketball today, I want to be Steph Curry. Does that mean I am Steph Curry? Well, I'm sorry, Mary. I will cross over. I cross over again. I spend the Rubik's Cube. I cross over multiple sports to try to find one that people will relate to. So if you don't know football, I'll use basketball. I'll use soccer. I will use whatever sport I need to do for you to get get the picture. ⁓ So.

Mary Hamm (55:27)
Who's that? Just kidding.

Right.

Jeff Liscum (55:52)
Until I actually land that plane. So yes, just because I buy that doesn't mean that I'm capable of being effective with it and I tell people it's I'm probably gonna hurt your feelings in some of this but it's not to it's not to be Hard on you. It's just for you. I know where you're spinning your wheels in your business So we're talking about hers as a rainmaker. It was hers. Her selling was high, but she had a real life She sold through people develop

Mary Hamm (55:59)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (56:19)
And once she got saw that she's like, my gosh, that's exactly what I did. I said, yeah, so don't try and force yourself to do things in business that aren't your intuitive because business, they call it talent. I always call it business intuitions. You're intuitive in this area. You just feel it. And it is like great athletes. You can't tell a great athlete, a great athlete, a great coach even every great coaches book. You go to the bookstore right now. There will not be on the shelf a book.

The coaches book that will tell you at the 10 minute mark of the game call a timeout and put X player in for success in this game There's no such book. It's just hard work determinants. It's a gut feeling hard work determination stick to itiveness These are all the catchphrases that everyone everyone says because I can't tell you why I Put this person in the game or why I ran the ball this way or I threw it their way or when I kicked it that way

Mary Hamm (56:56)
Right. Yeah. It's just a gut feeling.

Jeff Liscum (57:17)
Gretzky's book is skate to the puck. You mean if I just go read Wayne Gretzky's Book about skate to the puck. I will be a great hockey player because I don't know where the puck is going before it gets there Right on and let me lace them up today So with because of that understanding You you really get to like recognize what you do well in business

Bill Dippel (57:33)
Great. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (57:47)
How you do it is through your strengths.

That's the dynamic. So everyone who has high selling doesn't sell the same way. Everyone who conducts people doesn't conduct the same way. Everyone who sees opportunities and business risk, they'll do it the same way. People don't build relationships the same way. But if you're really high in that intuition, like Heidi's high in relationship, she intuitively will talk to you within minutes and decide if she's going to build a folder file in her email.

Bill Dippel (57:51)
Got it. Yep.

Mary Hamm (57:56)
Right.

Jeff Liscum (58:20)
to build a relationship with you.

Mary Hamm (58:23)
Does she have a file folder in her email for me? Go check now.

Jeff Liscum (58:28)
I'm sure she does. I promise you.

Bill Dippel (58:28)
Wow. Wow.

Mary Hamm (58:30)
I n I'm gonna start sending her emails all the time just so I get my own folder.

Bill Dippel (58:32)
Go check now. Did Jeff get on that, would you?

Mary Hamm (58:37)
Listen, you don't understand, Jeff, like Heidi is my my human spirit animal. I don't even know what to say. And and my work, Bessie. The three of us, we all have the bang thing. Not today. So don't judge, but you know, whatever.

Bill Dippel (58:43)
Her soul animal. I I think it's fair, Jeff. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (58:45)
So, so let me, so let me.

So I can tell you that that is part of her, that's her strength of input. Right? So that strength of input puts things in and files in a certain way, but she, files people as a conductor, but, but she recognizes no, no, she, she, she leans Rainmaker. I mean, she, she leans conductor. She, does rain, but she really leans conductor first.

Mary Hamm (59:06)
Yeah. Yeah. So she is a conductor, not a rainmaker. Right? She's a conductor.

Okay. Okay.

Jeff Liscum (59:19)
So I will say this, you're not an either or, you're more a higher percentage of. So she's more conductor, when I talk about the questions you ask, her question she asks is how to help people in business. Rainmakers think about how do I help the business. That's a distinction.

Mary Hamm (59:24)
Gotcha. Mm.

Bill Dippel (59:40)
Gotcha. Right.

Jeff Liscum (59:44)
She looks at the people being helped helps the business. And that's in that thought process of getting it better. The Rainmaker looks at how do I make this business better? People as a way of doing it.

Bill Dippel (1:00:01)
Gotcha. Gotcha. Wow. Well we're so Yeah, we didn't I mean I so Mary, I I know I'm not a BP ten practitioner. I don't use it as a regular tool. Mary, on your end, I'm I'm guessing not. Yeah.

Mary Hamm (1:00:03)
Man, BP ten is like a whole other podcast, I think.

I do not use it. I've taken it. I'm a I'm a conductor relationship disruptor.

Bill Dippel (1:00:24)
Really? That stuns me, Mary. Ma it absolutely stuns me that you're a relationship district. I don't that makes no sense. I ⁓ but I ⁓ Yeah, yeah. I'm ⁓ I'm almost positive I've taken it as well. I'd have to go look and double check but

Jeff Liscum (1:00:36)
There you go.

Mary Hamm (1:00:42)
confident I took it, Jeff, when you and Heidi did the first time I met you guys when you did your thing at the the second Connect Learn chair.

Jeff Liscum (1:00:47)
yeah.

It is, is, I-

It explained, it helped to explain where people's success in business was occurring and where they were stuck in business was occurring. And it truly is drilled down to a one-to-one. The strength that helps you in your business and your intuition for business is the exact same strength that gets in your way and the areas of your business that are spinning.

Mary Hamm (1:01:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ooh.

Jeff Liscum (1:01:26)
But it's so hard to just say that to you without something for you to empirically look at. So your relationship building is, going say, I'm going to use this as, as the analogy, your relationship building is high. Your selling is low. ⁓ I'm not looking to report I'm just saying that's your number 10. What that could mean is what it shows up as you are very high. could be very high and build knowing intuitively who to build a relationship with, but not knowing what to say. And this is the

Mary Hamm (1:01:33)
Yeah.

Mm.

Jeff Liscum (1:01:56)
difference knowing what to say to get that person to say yes to your business. And it's an intuition. It's not to say you won't get a yes. It means you don't get the yeses at the same level. Let's say bill is number one selling.

Mary Hamm (1:02:02)
Right. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:02:13)
Okay, so and the difference of it is Bill talks to 20 people to get 10 yeses. You talk to 50 people to get 10 yeses.

Mary Hamm (1:02:24)
Hm. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:02:26)
Now just play the number out. Once he hits 50, he's gotten more yeses than you did at 50.

Mary Hamm (1:02:35)
So I just need to charge more of them, Bill.

Bill Dippel (1:02:38)
That's fair. Yeah, more work involved. ⁓ yeah, yeah, you know. And I Jeff, I don't think it holds water because I say yes to Mary. Everything everything she asks is a yes.

Jeff Liscum (1:02:39)
That'll be fair. But that, but that.

Mary Hamm (1:02:41)
Ha ha ha.

Okay.

Bill Dippel (1:02:51)
I don't I think she gets yeses far more frequently than I no, but I Jeff, I I think yeah, I absolutely under how we're doing it is different depending on what the outcome is, ⁓ what the frequency is that we're stepping in, what strengths we're doing to provide and and how we do it. And I that's a really interesting first blush and a different way to look at strengths than we normally do on this show. So I love that.

Mary Hamm (1:02:56)
He didn't see my report.

Jeff Liscum (1:03:17)
Yeah, and and and with with in a coaching environment with it with someone who is coaching. We have probably learned. Now I've said that because I've talked to a number of coaches. My strength does dot dot dot dot dot. I'm good at dot dot dot because of my strength and I will disprove that. With that side of it going, no, you you probably are good. You just are downplaying it.

Mary Hamm (1:03:36)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:03:46)
and thinking you're better on the other side because you've seen other people with that strength be good at that.

Mary Hamm (1:03:51)
Hmm. So what you're saying is we the the strengths report doesn't tell us who we are, we tell our strengths report who we are.

Jeff Liscum (1:03:53)
You ⁓

⁓ We tell ourselves who we are in the work environment.

So you can have lots of friends and you meet everybody, you make lots of connections, but does that mean you make them the connections for your work environment, for your work outcomes?

Mary Hamm (1:04:15)
Right. So B P ten is very business focused. Very business focused.

Jeff Liscum (1:04:19)
very business focused. So from when coaches, when we do go into as coaches in the organizations, I stress this, do not walk in there with your preconceived notions that this strength does this inside those four walls. I can guarantee you, I can guarantee you, you do not know that.

Bill Dippel (1:04:43)
Right. Yeah. And I think as coaches, yeah, I think as coaches we're all trying to promote that regularly. Are you using it immaturely or immaturely? Are your employees in the basement, right? where where are they coming from as they're using the particular themes that we bring up and are they doing it in a way that is a weakness or a strength? And yeah. Yeah, it seems

Jeff Liscum (1:04:44)
And that is the thing.

Mary Hamm (1:04:52)
Right.

Jeff Liscum (1:05:07)
Moving your high communication, high woo to the front desk doesn't actually mean that they're going to build better relationships with your clients than the person who has a relator and individualization at the person's front desk. And again, I'm not saying either one will or won't, but I'm not saying putting one over the other isn't a guarantee. It is how you use it. That person's going to make connections with that strength. That's what you're looking for. How are they making the connections? They're doing it through that strength.

Mary Hamm (1:05:15)
Very true. Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (1:05:15)
Right. Yeah.

Mary Hamm (1:05:21)
It's how you use it. Right.

Jeff Liscum (1:05:33)
But are the is the connection happening with your clients or patients in the waiting room? Or is that person over talking the person not listening with their communication? Because it's in the basement, you're seeing the outcomes, right? That's the thing is, but are you recognizing if you just maybe move the other person there to talk and build a relationship then there they hey, how is I remember yours? How's your son and daughter doing? Are they better? Is the kids in school now? my God, you remember me? Yes, they did. Did the other person do that?

Mary Hamm (1:05:42)
Right.

Bill Dippel (1:05:43)
That's

Mary Hamm (1:06:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:06:05)
Those are the considerations.

Bill Dippel (1:06:07)
That's why Mary over talks me. Okay, I now I understand. That makes that makes more sense.

Mary Hamm (1:06:11)
Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. I do have woo and communication very high.

Jeff Liscum (1:06:17)
What is that?

Mary Hamm (1:06:18)
Ha

Bill Dippel (1:06:19)
Yeah. That's weird. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for coming on today and talking about BP ten and ⁓ strength shop and ⁓ a a kind of a different way to think about w some of the offerings Gallup has and how that integrates with the strengths. I assume it's a it is a different assessment than the strengths assessment, correct? Or can we generate BP ten from the we can. Okay.

Mary Hamm (1:06:23)
Yes, thank you, Jeff.

Jeff Liscum (1:06:23)
Absolutely.

Mary Hamm (1:06:42)
Right.

Jeff Liscum (1:06:42)
It is a different assessment. Yeah, so there's different steps that if you go ⁓ just really search, build a profile 10, you'll find your way to the assessment and take it. ⁓ It just lets you, it tells you some different things from a business point of view than just maybe a strengths point of view. Strength is truly is how we communicate at work. So never say put that in the drawer, don't use it. No, that's how we're gonna understand each other.

It's through our strengths. It it's just it ties in to us at work and we were looking at certain people. If that person is in a role or is doing something you may want to use that assessment to understand is that person. Operating in their strengths for what we're needing them to do in our side of our four walls. This can kind of give you some insight into that pretty pretty directly within that, because then you will not try and coach them up.

Mary Hamm (1:07:11)
Right.

Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:07:39)
to use their woo more or user related more, their individualization more to do that, that may not necessarily be what they're best at. And that's okay. You wanna know that, don't go in there with, as I said at beginning, don't put their preconceived ideas to push that strength to the forefront to do a job because they have that strength, because I know that strength is what I understand the strength to be. It will, it can.

Bill Dippel (1:07:46)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mary Hamm (1:07:57)
Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:08:07)
cause an issue for you and your organization and for you as a coach to force that person to try and use that strength just to do a job. Isn't necessarily a one-to-one.

Mary Hamm (1:08:14)
Yeah. Don't make assumptions.

Bill Dippel (1:08:15)
Her. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:08:17)
Don't make assumptions.

Bill Dippel (1:08:19)
See, I assume Mary wants me on the show and then I'm wrong. So I know the assumption is, you know, it's I anyway. It's yeah. It's good that I'm here to push the buttons and make sure the audio works. Jeff, that's my role. It I know that's not part of the B P ten, ⁓ is the engineer, but I'll you know, I'll just take that role today and that's that's it. It's really Mary's show and I'm just hanging out. That is it is expert, so

Mary Hamm (1:08:23)
Ha ha ha.

Well, somebody has to do the technical side of things.

Jeff Liscum (1:08:33)
You

Mary Hamm (1:08:41)
But that's all that is it. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:08:45)
That's the expert. That's the expert.

Mary Hamm (1:08:46)
But there you go.

Bill Dippel (1:08:50)
Well, Jeff, thank you very much for coming on today for ⁓ for taking it. We we love looking at this from a different lens, understanding more about the strengths. You talked about BP ten previously ⁓ while we were all in a in a large environment. And I I know we got a lot out of it at that time. So thank you very much for coming on, seeing how they interlace, interlock together, ⁓ how they are a bit different and giving us that that extra view. So thank you. Thank you very much for coming on. Yeah.

Jeff Liscum (1:08:52)
As always.

Absolutely.

Mary Hamm (1:09:16)
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for saying yes.

Jeff Liscum (1:09:16)
You're welcome. Absolutely.

Bill Dippel (1:09:19)
And yeah, thanks for and thanks for coming on encountering Heidi a little bit and bringing on Mary's husband's favorite show so far this year. So I think that's that's gonna

Jeff Liscum (1:09:30)
There we go.

Mary Hamm (1:09:31)
Well, we also had Rusty, so Rusty and and Jeff might be a a very similar vibe there.

Bill Dippel (1:09:34)
Okay.

All right, that's fair.

Jeff Liscum (1:09:37)
I'll be 1A, he can be 2B.

Mary Hamm (1:09:40)
I think he still might yeah, it's fine, whatever.

Bill Dippel (1:09:40)
We're gonna Yeah, we'll send you a review on that, Jeff. We'll let you know how how the husband felt. So I love it. All right. Well, thanks, team. Thanks for coming on. we've taken up a ton of your time today, Jeff. And thanks for thanks for doing it. I know. Mary's late going Mary's late getting on another podcast. So ⁓ I I here she's on her way. Anyway, I love having you here, Jeff. Thank you to our arsonists. Thank you to our regular listeners.

Mary Hamm (1:09:45)
Yeah. We'll let you know how Mike Mike rates you.

Jeff Liscum (1:09:48)
⁓

Mary Hamm (1:09:52)
Yep. So much time. I'm so late.

Jeff Liscum (1:09:56)
I appreciate it. Thank you guys.

Mary Hamm (1:10:01)
Hold on, Heidi, I'm coming.

Jeff Liscum (1:10:01)
Her and Heidi.

Bill Dippel (1:10:10)
Thanks for coming in and hanging out with us and we will talk soon.