Strengths On Fire

Bill Dippel (00:01.972)
It is another beautiful day in Podcast Heaven.

Sarah Collins (00:05.862)
I mean, in the podcast world, it's always Friday, which I love that.

Bill Dippel (00:08.48)
It's a beautiful, it does not matter what day of the week we do it, Sarah. It's always a beautiful Friday morning. think we, we do. I mean, I don't wanna, yeah, I don't wanna lead anyone astray.

Sarah Collins (00:16.328)
Also, we always do it on Fridays, so.

But it drops on Tuesday, so we get to give Friday energy to folks any day of the week when they're listening to it. That's the beauty.

Tara Gronhovd (00:25.841)
Mmm.

Bill Dippel (00:28.972)
Well, and also we record these kind of in the in the summer spring right right into the fall start Which means our Friday mornings generally are pretty spectacular like I I've had a couple where I've said there's snow sitting out here, but that's pretty rare today Another I think it's 64 outside waiting for another beautiful golf day. It's just starting to get warm so Just saying I love it

Sarah Collins (00:36.404)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (00:40.254)
I mean, yeah.

Sarah Collins (00:51.444)
Of of course. I love it. And it's August 1st, technically. If you're listening, I mean, you're listening to this not on August 1st, but recording on August 1st, which is in the Swiftie world, August, her song, Salt Air, Rust on the Door. So the Swifties were just all up in our fields today, living for the hope of it all, if you know, you know.

Tara Gronhovd (00:57.402)
It is.

Bill Dippel (01:04.012)
Yes. Yes. Yes. So.

Tara Gronhovd (01:05.554)
you

Bill Dippel (01:12.28)
We have a have a Swifty. We have a Swifty call out. I'm very happy as long as we have our Taylor Swift moment. So, well, let's let's give you your question of the day. You ready? So. We're about to find out. I can't I can't wait. I know, right? I mean, it should be good. So.

Sarah Collins (01:17.032)
We did it! We got her in!

Sarah Collins (01:24.072)
Yes, I'm ready.

Tara Gronhovd (01:27.89)
I'm ready.

Sarah Collins (01:30.824)
Yes, our guest is going to be a part of the discussion today at the top. And I love that about that about her.

Bill Dippel (01:37.282)
So Sarah, you run a Strong as Mother workshop. Yep, Strong as Mother, right? And they are, it's all about strengths and women, correct?

Sarah Collins (01:43.604)
some other.

Sarah Collins (01:51.484)
about strengths in motherhood, which typically is women's.

Bill Dippel (01:53.14)
Yes. do you have a, the question is, do you have a favorite family coaching moment that has influenced or you bring up in that strong as mother workshop?

Sarah Collins (02:07.486)
Well, first of all, it's strong as a mother. You keep saying it in a weird way and it's giving me the heebie-jeebies.

Bill Dippel (02:12.334)
Once again, Sarah's just weird. I've never been to it. I get it.

Sarah Collins (02:16.404)
Right. Yeah, it's strong as mother and like, it's not that sort of, thank you, thank you. Exactly. Strong as a mother, which could be any of you if you're a mother. We've also had a father in the group. And the funny thing about it is, so I'm kind of going to blow your question up. Of course, you guys.

Tara Gronhovd (02:17.01)
Sarah is not mother.

Speaking of Swift...

Bill Dippel (02:25.07)
Good lord. Good lord.

Sarah Collins (02:38.642)
I'm like, I never let my dog in the room while I'm recording. And the one time he's in here, now he's trying to get up in my space. So he's doing that thing where he's making me pet him. So strong as a mother is a, technically, obviously most people who take it are mothers. They have children, but I always say it's not a parenting group. It's not a coaching group about how to parent. I have no idea. I would not be the person to do that.

It is about how to be your best self in your motherhood, which is different than how to parent. I mean, it's a fine line, but it is one that we do try to straddle. So it's really not family coaching. It is coaching for women who are also mothers. However, this summer did family coaching. So a mother hired me and I coached her three teenage daughters and her and her husband.

And it was really incredible experience to see them all just learn about themselves. And I think the coolest thing, which is probably not at all the question you just asked, but the dad was talking about how he had hyrrelator and he was saying that he asked the children a lot of questions and he was telling them, he just really wanted to deeply know them. He wanted to be able to know a lot about them, connect with them and their oldest daughter.

When we went around at the end to sort of say our takeaways, she said, she said, you know, I tend to get irritated when you ask a lot of questions, dad, but I never knew the reason behind it. And now that I know it's because you deeply want to know me, like I am going to try to have more patience for it. And so that was one of a really cool experience about how strengths was connecting families together.

Bill Dippel (04:24.383)
Wow, really good. Yeah, that is that is really good. Yeah, I I was just trying to think about how your personal life influenced an interesting coaching moment, right? So something in your family that may have changed it. And I think that's, you know, the fact that you are a mother, a pretty fantastic one from my point of view. Although I don't know firsthand, but I would say

Tara Gronhovd (04:25.042)
What a beautiful story. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (04:26.674)
I know, it's really cool. I know, it was-

Sarah Collins (04:53.012)
I was like, you literally never met my children ever, but I appreciate the compliment.

Bill Dippel (04:55.177)
No, but are you today? You're just tearing me down all day. I think that's all. You know, the names are wrong. My voice is wrong. All right. No, no. You know what? It's just fine. You know, today I do need. Yeah. Yeah. So but I just find that for me, there are so many opportunities in my personal life to bring relevant stories to the coaching world.

Sarah Collins (04:59.796)
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, you're doing great. You're doing great. You're awesome.

Tara Gronhovd (05:07.09)
Bill needs some mothering right now, actually.

Sarah Collins (05:09.499)
Yeah, yeah.

Bill Dippel (05:24.527)
regarding my relationships.

Sarah Collins (05:24.98)
I am now understanding the question and realizing I did not answer it at all, but continue. Okay, go.

Bill Dippel (05:29.857)
And you spent five minutes tearing me down. It's OK. No, I, know, but the having those moments with with family members or with really close friends so often for me reflect in my coaching in several ways where I get really valuable stories or really good instances where, hey, you want to know what a dynamic partnership looks like? This is.

Sarah Collins (05:46.196)
Hmm.

Bill Dippel (05:55.554)
This is a moment where that happens and I think you actually illustrated that pretty well in a father daughter relationship in hey, this is a there's some dynamics around the communication here that we're exploring as a family member and in living in that dynamic We have experienced something with each other that will help us grow and that's kind of that's kind of my my take on the family side of of and the and the heavy friends and and those

Sarah Collins (06:03.113)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (06:25.261)
interactions that we have that so frequently are affecting how we coach and how we think about the coaching.

Sarah Collins (06:31.944)
Yeah, I would say I probably use examples from my family, my friends, my personal life a thousand times in a facilitation. You know, I just, feel like I'm constantly like, you know what just happened? I have high input. And so I feel like I'm constantly gathering stories and not even realizing it. And then being like, here's a great example of that. I'm very good at drawing connections in that way with that input.

Bill Dippel (06:42.689)
Me too. Yeah, me too.

Bill Dippel (06:58.081)
Very nice. And it's funny, I don't have input. So, but I do the exact same. I'm always even on the drive in or a brief interaction with somebody in the hallway prior to the event and say, do you know what I just heard? Let's talk about what, how that is important to what we're going to do today. and I think those are really, really kind of powerful moments because it brings everybody into

Sarah Collins (07:01.78)
Hmm.

Sarah Collins (07:12.617)
Hmm.

Bill Dippel (07:24.289)
Hey, this is a real world example, but also we're talking human beings to human beings. And yeah, maybe it takes that ethereal nature of CliftonStrengths out somewhat.

Sarah Collins (07:29.79)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (07:35.772)
Okay Tara, I know you're chomping at the bit. Come on in.

Tara Gronhovd (07:38.578)
I'm actually really glad to hear the question kind of further explained because I actually avoid coaching families if I can. I used to, so we do leadership coaching and development. And early on when I started my business, every once in a while, a business owner or a leader I was working with would say, Hey, could you come work with me and my husband? Or could you come work with me and my wife? And I did it a few times. I was like, that is...

Not for me. So, that is, that's a little level, a level maybe deeper. However, what I would say is that often in leadership coaching, because you bring your whole self to work, because you bring your whole self to leadership, we do talk about personal lives. So it's not that that is left out of coaching. but if I'm going to work on, on dynamics between people, it's usually more so, in the workplace. However.

I do also frequently bring in examples and I find myself often bringing examples in to help normalize what people are experiencing. To say, you know, I was just working with another leader or this just happened to someone I know, or to say what you're experiencing is not abnormal. Cause I think so often people just want to know, am I crazy or is this, is this normal? And it tends to knock the.

Sarah Collins (08:41.588)
Hmm.

Sarah Collins (08:54.6)
Right.

Tara Gronhovd (09:00.42)
the shame down and whatever people are experiencing and they can make progress a lot faster if we can get them to reduce that.

Sarah Collins (09:04.041)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (09:10.076)
And I think people remember, I mean, I know people remember stories more than they remember facts. So yeah, we have a lot of great data from Gallup about how this can help your organization and your life and yada yada. But what people are going to remember is the story you tell them about how it changed someone's way they work or their daily rhythms or whatever it is. And so I think it's really powerful when you are a coach and you have the storytelling ability.

Tara Gronhovd (09:13.842)
100%.

Tara Gronhovd (09:17.776)
I feel you.

Tara Gronhovd (09:37.179)
Okay.

Sarah Collins (09:38.236)
wherever you're pulling that from in your own strengths to be able to illustrate it to the clients.

Tara Gronhovd (09:43.004)
I do tell stories sometimes to demonstrate different strengths pieces from my family or my children. But recently, my youngest son overheard me sharing a story and was very upset that I was talking about him. And so I was like, maybe I shouldn't be doing that. I need to be a little more careful about what they would prefer. And even though what I was sharing was not bad, he just didn't like the idea of me talking about him when he wasn't there.

Bill Dippel (09:56.92)
Ooh, ouch.

Sarah Collins (10:11.836)
Yeah, it's slippery. It's like thinking about how people share their kids on social media. Or I was listening to a comic recently, like a famous person on a podcast, talking about how they now, when they do a recorded standup, think very carefully about the stories they share about their family. Because as your kids get older, they have opinions about what they do and what they do not want shared. And he was saying, he actually said,

Tara Gronhovd (10:17.116)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (10:36.261)
Yes.

Sarah Collins (10:41.02)
I will share more if it's not recorded, but if I know it's being recorded, then I'm really, really careful about what I, what I say. Cause that lives forever. And I have heard that like Howard Stern says he regrets ever talking about his children on his show because that lives with them for the rest of their lives. Now we're not quite that level yet. That's why I said yet.

Tara Gronhovd (10:45.063)
haha

Tara Gronhovd (10:48.817)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (10:57.414)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (11:02.428)
Right.

Tara Gronhovd (11:05.788)
Give us time, Sarah, give us time.

Sarah Collins (11:09.652)
So it is an interesting thing to think though about like how much privacy do the children and the people in your life deserve to have. Sometimes I feel weird when even when I share things on this podcast about like another coach told me and I never say who it was, but I do think about if they listen to this, are they going to be like flattered or upset that I brought up that story? Because also did I misrepresent the story? My husband likes to tell me I have a

Tara Gronhovd (11:14.341)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Bill Dippel (11:17.738)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (11:30.811)
Right.

Bill Dippel (11:32.524)
Credit or not.

Tara Gronhovd (11:35.986)
Mmm.

Sarah Collins (11:38.83)
a knack for hyperbole because I am a very gifted storyteller, but that doesn't always mean it feels accurate to the person who it's about.

Bill Dippel (11:48.566)
true.

Sarah Collins (11:48.788)
So a lot to consider.

Tara Gronhovd (11:51.174)
find myself when I think of it in the moment, I give credit if it is something I've learned or picked up from another coach in particular, I try to give credit. It's hard though, sometimes we, we integrate so much of what we learn from so many different sources that like, at what point does it become yours versus someone else's and but trying to give credit where credit is due and then

Sarah Collins (12:08.745)
Hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (12:17.818)
And then obviously if you're sharing a story that is more personal or maybe a share is something that wasn't as great, try not to give any personal indicators about who that might be. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (12:29.65)
Yeah. Which I think this is a really interesting segue into our topic for today, which is, is CliftonStrengths too nice for real workplace conflict? But wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. Before I go there, need Tara. I'm just talking to you like everyone knows who you are. Can you introduce yourself to our audience? Because they're like, wait, we just have a third host today. She just rolled in. Who is she? Tell us more. So before I get into the topic, tell the audience who you are. Tell us about your business.

Bill Dippel (12:30.432)
now.

Tara Gronhovd (12:34.748)
Mmm.

Bill Dippel (12:41.748)
You are. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (12:49.612)
Who is that? Yeah, third voice rolled up. It's good.

Tara Gronhovd (12:50.509)
you

Tara Gronhovd (12:58.596)
Sure. My name is Tara Grunewald. I own a business called Align. We help organizations grow their leadership capacity. So organizations can't grow beyond the capacity of the leaders that they have. And so we help them grow leaders. We help them grow future leaders and we help them grow with leaders. And I am also the founder of the Shift Leadership Event and a co-host of the Grounding and Growing Leadership podcast with Pamela Nelson, who I know you have scheduled to be on your podcast.

Sarah Collins (13:10.836)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (13:27.77)
in the future. Yeah, I live in Minnesota and love the strengths community. And we use strengths as a tool in our work. It's not our pride. It's not what we lead with, but we use strengths as a as a tool. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (13:44.04)
Yeah, I love that. And okay, you have to highlight your big shift conference that you just had not that long ago, because I think the world deserves to know what you were able to accomplish.

Tara Gronhovd (13:50.556)
Sure.

Bill Dippel (13:56.176)
and also tell us your top 10 so that our people listening can kind of get an idea on that as they hear you.

Tara Gronhovd (13:59.238)
Sure.

Tara Gronhovd (14:02.586)
Yeah, so top 10 are strategic, ideation, strategic, activator, ideation, individualization, communication, connectedness, futuristic, self-assurance, arranger, and command.

Sarah Collins (14:22.622)
Ooh, she got it. Ding, ding, ding. Love it.

Tara Gronhovd (14:25.262)
Yeah, I was going say I don't have it in front of me, but pretty sure that's it.

Sarah Collins (14:28.594)
It was really good, really good. Okay, now the shift conference.

Tara Gronhovd (14:32.644)
Sure. last spring, so spring of 24, I literally woke up one day and thought, what if, so I should back up. We use, we use a lot of different, thought leaders in the work that we do. And we use John Acuff's work. If you're familiar with John Acuff, he's written several books, but one of them is called soundtracks, which is really about our mindset and the power of neuroplasticity in our mind.

But John is funny and he writes in a way that is really sticky. And so we had just been seeing incredible results when we were using it. people were transforming their mind and transforming their lives as a result. we loved combining strengths with soundtracks. That was, that was fun. And I woke up one morning and thought, gosh, what if we brought John Acuff to St. Cloud, Minnesota? Now, if you are not from Minnesota, you have no reason to know this, but St. Cloud is, not super small.

But it's also, we're not a large Metro either. We're, you know, a hundred thousand ish as a community. Um, but we end up getting seen as flyover space in Minnesota because we're close enough to the cities that you would just go to Minneapolis, St. Paul area. If you're going to go to a large, you know, a high end speaker, if you're going to go see a concert, those kinds of things. And I thought, you know, we can have nice things.

and St. Cloud and what would it look like if we brought a speaker like that here? And I started dreaming about the transformation and, and then was like, Ooh, that feels like a lot of work. And it feels like a big risk. but long story short, we were able to secure some upfront sponsors and we were able to bring John to St. Cloud in May of 2025. And actually the first idea was to bring John the second night.

Then I created Shift as a leadership event around that idea and Shift itself has now become the purpose. Shift happens when we do more than one and done, when we actually take action after training. And so we all had t-shirts that say Shift happens. We had about 400 people in attendance.

Tara Gronhovd (16:51.442)
for our first year, feel really good about it. And we just, I'm actually on my other screen looking at a draft of our sponsors for sponsorship opportunities for 2026 because we're doing it again. So.

Sarah Collins (17:02.932)
Oh my gosh, I love it. Will you bring John back or are gonna have someone else this time?

Tara Gronhovd (17:07.666)
When is this airing?

Sarah Collins (17:10.609)
Great question. What are we probably two or three weeks out?

Bill Dippel (17:11.371)
I think we're about three weeks out now, so.

Tara Gronhovd (17:11.697)
You

Tara Gronhovd (17:18.322)
Okay. So you can hear it here first because we're not, we're not announcing it or not announcing it until September with our community. but we are bringing John back. Yeah. Yeah. He was phenomenal. Best speaker I've ever seen live truly.

Bill Dippel (17:23.093)
we're revealing.

Bill Dippel (17:31.947)
Excellent.

Sarah Collins (17:34.068)
I love that.

Sarah Collins (17:40.443)
Wow.

Bill Dippel (17:40.575)
Wow, fantastic. And are you having the event same spots, doing the whole?

Tara Gronhovd (17:42.608)
Yeah.

same spot, basically the same week, you know, of the year. So it'll be May 14th, 2026. We have people this year fly in from other parts of the country to attend and they've already said they'll come back. We were able to put just put together something really cool. And the cool part is John will have new content. So if people were there last year, it'll still be fresh and new for next year. But we heard from so many people, I wish I had known or I had no idea what this would be like.

I wish I had invited so-and-so. And so we're hoping that by bringing John back, it will build the excitement. And then, you know, in year three, we'll look for a different speaker. But for year two, we're bringing him back.

Sarah Collins (18:17.64)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (18:23.113)
Yum.

Sarah Collins (18:27.874)
I love that. And what a great way for you to just build that connection with him more too.

Tara Gronhovd (18:32.42)
Yes. And he has been just an incredibly generous partner. Spent a lot of time did, did his strengths, did a debrief with me the week before the event so that he could, so that he could talk about it on stage, which he did not have to do. And yeah, it was pretty phenomenal. So.

Sarah Collins (18:37.332)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (18:42.105)
No way, you're kidding.

Sarah Collins (18:48.764)
No.

Sarah Collins (18:52.83)
All right, all right, everyone go get John A. Cuff's books, right? Let's help grow this even more. I mean, he already has a huge following, but still, it wouldn't hurt to have more. We love to support those people who are out there doing the good work. I love to see that.

Tara Gronhovd (18:56.529)
Yes.

Bill Dippel (19:08.383)
Yeah, fantastic sounding event. A wonderful idea around it and wonderful on you changing the lives, helping people kind of refocus, understand where they're at and where they probably need to be, or at least get start wrapping their head around that understanding. Which leads directly to our question today in a really great way, which is

Tara Gronhovd (19:24.06)
Bye bye.

Bill Dippel (19:35.089)
Is CliftonStrengths too nice for real workplace conflict? we've, all of us as coaches have had moments in our coaching, I'm sure that there's been a misinterpretation around whatever the strength might have been, or there's two people too, I've had this one too, where people are too engaged in whatever they think that theme means. And we have to back them out of how that.

Tara Gronhovd (19:38.61)
Hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (19:58.738)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (20:02.42)
how that reads on the paper and dive into understanding it in a better way or maybe a more enthusiastic way or less enthusiastic in some terms. So Tara, there is the debate question today. Do you find Clifton's strengths too nice for real workplace conflict?

Tara Gronhovd (20:23.152)
Hmm. And you want my heart take?

Bill Dippel (20:25.95)
Hell yeah, we want the hot take.

Sarah Collins (20:27.09)
I love a heartache.

Tara Gronhovd (20:29.506)
yes, if it's in the wrong hands, if it's, so I have seen and witnessed strengths being misused in, different environments, or even different facilitators, to be honest, you know, coming in after. so I think it can be, but not the, mean, not the way we coach and guide it. We actually, you know, yes, we have to start with what's working well and what's right.

But strengths is a phenomenal tool to help us get into what are the natural points of tension, how, because of how we're motivated, how do we naturally come at this differently and see things differently? We pretty quickly go to the points of tension and conflict. And I think that's because, you know, especially using the word nice. So I do think it can be misused. But nice is about comfort. And so if you're going to stay in a place of comfort,

then yes, anything can be misused, right? But kind is more of our goal and kind is clear. Clear is kind. And strengths is a phenomenal tool to create clarity. And so it doesn't have to be, but I'm sure both of you have experienced teams that want you to come in and use strengths like a party trick. Come in, do a few magic tricks and entertain, know, edutainment, entertain the team.

Sarah Collins (21:32.808)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Yes.

Sarah Collins (21:53.044)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (21:54.164)
Sure.

Tara Gronhovd (21:59.378)
for a few hours and then we'll see you next year. And we try not to do that.

Bill Dippel (22:04.99)
Yeah. Yeah. I turned down clients when that's the request or, or aim them at another coach that might, that might fuel what they're trying to do. Yeah. I agree with you. Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (22:10.833)
Yeah.

Yeah, one and done can do can actually do damage and that's any assessment that isn't just strengths.

Bill Dippel (22:20.36)
Yeah. Well, to get some clarity around your answer there, you said, yes, depending on who's utilizing it. But we brought up both instances. I thought you pretty cleverly brought both of that up, facilitators or the actual people that have gone through the strengths. Which one do you think generally is the one that you're looking at as being the tricky member of using that?

Tara Gronhovd (22:24.615)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (22:39.666)
clients.

Bill Dippel (22:48.616)
Which one would you say you see more frequently misusing strengths?

Tara Gronhovd (22:53.852)
Well, that's an interesting question. Because I wasn't there when the last person facilitated, right? Because sometimes I'll come into a team that already has done strengths and they want to refresh or they understand it can go deeper, but they haven't gone deeper. So I also just want to honor other facilitators and say, it's possible that you weren't given an opportunity to take it deeper with a team, right?

Bill Dippel (23:21.738)
Sure, sure.

Tara Gronhovd (23:22.704)
I think it has more to do with whether or not the organization truly values what strengths can do for them as a business, or if they just see it as a fluffy thing that we're going to do as a feel good thing, they've been told they need to work on quote unquote soft skills, which is a pet peeve word for me. cause the hardest skills to learn are quote unquote soft skills. They are hard. but you know, so I get, I see leaders who.

Sarah Collins (23:44.147)
Right.

Bill Dippel (23:44.98)
Sure, yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (23:51.794)
don't necessarily understand that if they were to invest in strengths as a common language to create more clarity, to help them learn better, work better together, that there are real business metrics on the other side of it. I've also seen leaders, unhealthy leaders use strengths and weaponize it, you know, to put people in a box, to say, aren't fit for this role because you have high empathy. I've heard a say that.

And yeah, I'm like, this, you need to maybe leave that organization. and so I think an inch deep on any assessment, can really create more problems than, than be helpful if you're not careful.

Sarah Collins (24:21.768)
Red flag.

Sarah Collins (24:39.7)
Yeah, you're right. There can be so much misunderstanding if, or even people who will take the assessment, they say, I had my whole team take it and we just like talked about it, but there's no trained facilitator there. I also walk into teams like that where there's just, they're misunderstanding, misusing it. And it does feel good as a facilitator to be able to walk in and do a session and then have people go, I did not.

Tara Gronhovd (24:49.975)
Mm-hmm. Right. That happens to you.

Sarah Collins (25:08.66)
know that or I never thought about that or I actually understand even the basis of it now because I will spend a lot of time at the top the first time I'm meeting with a group going through. feel like sometimes I'm you know beating it over and over again about what the assessment is and how we use it and the what we do with it and what we don't do with it and like here are rules and here's why it works and so it

Tara Gronhovd (25:31.122)
Alright.

Sarah Collins (25:36.288)
It is helpful to have a facilitator who's working alongside of a team to help walk them through the process of what is possible and not just that nicety because I could see it misinterpreted as toxic positivity. Only focus on what's strong, just look at what's right, ignore what's wrong, like you're awesome. It could come off that way, right?

Tara Gronhovd (25:41.902)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (25:52.946)
100%.

Tara Gronhovd (26:02.246)
Well, and I've, I mean, I've, I've talked to leaders who have resisted strengths for that reason. They're like, you just want to come in and, and, you know, build people up and tell them what they're doing. Right. But we have real problems to solve. have real challenges to deal with. And the unfortunate thing is that strengths can be an accelerator to problem solving. It can be, it can be, they don't understand, that they're, they can really make progress faster as a team. If everyone understands each other better.

Sarah Collins (26:21.352)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (26:31.858)
If they understand themselves better, leaders can grow when they can see their blind spots and, you know, grow self-awareness.

Sarah Collins (26:34.729)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (26:37.737)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (26:38.546)
Yeah. And I do have positivity, number one. So I do really, I like focusing on what's strong. And I think when I'm talking to a leader and they're telling me about a dysfunctional team or a team that's struggling or has created this like tough culture, I like the idea of coming in and showing everyone what they're really good at and starting there because I know where we can take it.

Bill Dippel (26:40.574)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (27:04.084)
But I also think it's advantageous to show people what they can do and what they are doing well and to build them up because we live in this deficit culture that's constantly pointing out where you're not good enough and how you don't measure up. And here's the feedback. And so I like the positive psychology slant of it of like, let's build you up on what you can do. And then my, and Bill knows this is the thing I talk about on the podcast all the time.

With strengths, we can turn criticism into recognition, but that is still problem solving and getting people to shift how they are approaching things. And that makes real change, but it does come at it from a lens of what's right with you, not necessarily what's wrong with you.

Tara Gronhovd (27:41.127)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (27:49.394)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (27:51.11)
Yeah, and I would also echo that by saying a lot of times when I see managers turn the corner on that concept for me is when we use the phrase and we use this often

CliftonStrengths is a great way to have productive, proactive, positive discussions with your employees, but it is also a phenomenal way to have the hard talks with them. And then we give them examples. Usually they're asking for it. We'll explain what would that look like? How would we do it? And that difference of how I know you're good at these themes, right? We're set here, but we failed there. How can we amplify that theme with you more? How can I

Sarah Collins (28:22.676)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (28:34.569)
help get you there versus why did that client leave? What did you do wrong?

Tara Gronhovd (28:40.018)
Well, you know, even, even from a standpoint of one-on-one providing feedback or having to have a hard conversation, there's a, there's a framework. I call it kind of the magic formula for feedback, which is honor the intent and focus on the impact. So, and I didn't make that up. I got it from therapy, but, but.

Sarah Collins (29:02.537)
Love that.

Bill Dippel (29:02.931)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

Tara Gronhovd (29:04.338)
When we understand someone's strengths, we can much more easily honor their intent to say, know your high responsibility wants you to say yes. You want to be reliable. And the impact of taking on too much and missing deadlines is that the team is starting to not trust you. And so as long as someone feels seen for their intent,

Sarah Collins (29:09.032)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (29:16.307)
Hmm?

Sarah Collins (29:21.235)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (29:27.43)
because we judge other people through their actions, but we judge ourselves by our intent and we want everyone else to see our intent, not our actions. And so if we can start by honoring their intent, then it's much easier for them to hear the impact piece. The other thing is that even if both, let's say two or more people are showing up in their mature best selves, if you are coming at it from very different motivations and priorities,

Sarah Collins (29:27.892)
Hmm?

Tara Gronhovd (29:56.752)
You're going to have conflict. We all have points of natural tension within us, person within our own strengths, like my connectedness and command fight and wrestle on a daily basis. Right. That's a point of what I call natural tension within myself. And it can, when, when those two are operating in raw and kind of wrestling with each other and not a good way, it can result in some real, real doozies of, think you called it a dumpster fire when I looked at, you know,

Bill Dippel (30:25.384)
that's coming. yeah.

Sarah Collins (30:25.501)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (30:26.694)
but they also can balance each other, right? If I understand, and then you go to interpersonal dynamics within a team and how maybe someone with connected, who leads with connectedness and someone who leads with command and how those two people might really struggle with each other. they are operating as their best selves and they are not aligned. And so how do you work on alignment and helping them understand the motivations and the, priorities for each other?

Sarah Collins (30:31.442)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (30:44.286)
Yep.

Sarah Collins (30:52.041)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (30:57.276)
And I'm always telling teams, if you are in any type of relationship with another human being, be it your spouse, your children, your parents, your coworkers, your manager, literally anyone, you will experience conflict. It's just the natural human condition. This doesn't mean it's big C scary conflict, fighting, screaming at each other, but you'll have a disagreement. Hey, where do you want to go for lunch today?

Tara Gronhovd (31:10.482)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (31:20.69)
Right? That could be like, well, I Mexican food. Well, I don't really know what Mexican, but I want Asian food. Like that is a version of conflict really. And so it's one normalizing conflict is going to happen. And in fact, in the best teams, conflict needs to happen. We can't just have everyone bending over backwards to someone's whim on the team. We need to get better. We need to be in conflict.

Tara Gronhovd (31:37.266)
100%.

Tara Gronhovd (31:46.994)
In the last three weeks, I have facilitated three different teams on how to wrestle and rumble, um, because they really struggle. And so you have to get, and you have to dig and figure out where the fear is coming from. um, and they have to practice, but so I think the other, the other thing that comes into this is that people think, well, I'm just, I'm not good at conflict, so I'm going to avoid it.

Sarah Collins (31:53.716)
Mmm.

Tara Gronhovd (32:15.12)
And because they think it's something that it's like an attribute you were born with or something, it's a skill to be built. So if you never get reps in, if you never practice together on how to do that, you're never going to get better at it. And avoiding it isn't going to make you better at it.

Sarah Collins (32:27.828)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Right. And that's where I think coaching and facilitating can really help teams or partnerships because it can give you practice in low-stake situations or in scenarios, right, where you can see, I've been doing this thing with my teams where I'll show them the team grid. And a lot of facilitators I think out there know like the team grid, everyone loves it and wants to see it, but it can kind of fall flat. You you sort of call out your beginning things and then everyone's like, okay.

Tara Gronhovd (32:35.696)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (32:41.895)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (33:01.012)
Well, what do we do? And of course we know it can be really helpful. So I've been, I've created this activity recently where I'm like, okay, here's your team grid. You know, let's look at it and talk about it. And then I give them scenarios. So I'm using AI. So I put the type of team that it is in AI and I'm like, give me like five scenarios, a team like this in this industry might face. So I put those in there and I'm like, okay, let's just role play. Pick one of these scenarios that you could see your team falling into.

Tara Gronhovd (33:21.487)
yeah.

Sarah Collins (33:29.65)
And then I'm like, now tell me how do you deal with that right now? Like, right? So some teams will pick like dealing with a coworker who's really overwhelmed. I'm like, okay, what do you do? And it's funny because most teams are always saying good things. Well, we do this and I would do this, right? And every, it seems like all hunky dory. And then I'll say, okay, now let's go to like a 60,000 foot view and look at this from the point you're not in it and look at your team's strengths. How should we be handling this?

Tara Gronhovd (33:58.172)
Mmm.

Sarah Collins (33:59.154)
You know, and the way that they start workshopping these ideas and even be in conversation with each other, and it allows them to see their strengths and their teammates strengths in the moment. Right. And so it's this role. It's a safe role playing situation where but then they're actually problem solving in the moment of like, here's how we should do it. And so it's been a really great tool because it's a safe environment.

Tara Gronhovd (34:12.38)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (34:28.166)
Right? It feels quote unquote fake.

Tara Gronhovd (34:29.798)
Yeah. And you're just, and you're giving it, you're giving a scenario. So it's not, it's not that Bob dropped the ball. It's that this, you know, it's that random person on the page dropped the ball. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (34:33.096)
Yeah, it's-

Bill Dippel (34:36.443)
Ha ha ha ha.

Sarah Collins (34:41.53)
Exactly, exactly. But that's where we can help them when they're dealing with conflict or any of those things. It's like, let's role play on a scenario and think through it, like you're saying, to help them get the reps in. So then they feel more accustomed and comfortable when they're actually in the moment. They're like, we have done this. We've prepared for this.

Tara Gronhovd (35:06.098)
Yeah, you know, sorry, go ahead, Bill.

Bill Dippel (35:09.496)
no, I was going to take it in a different direction. So go ahead, Tara, respond to that one and then I'll I got another one for you.

Tara Gronhovd (35:14.352)
No, can keep you, go ahead and take us in another direction.

Bill Dippel (35:18.074)
All right. So interesting from your from your coaching practice, you had brought up John John Cuff's work and how it integrates and how they align. One of the hot questions Sarah and I had tackled previously on an episode was one of the things we see that we we that drives us a little crazy as coaches is going an inch deep with multiple assessments, different. You know, we come in and you did.

Strengths for a day and how did and now you're this month you're doing Colby and then next month you're gonna do disk and then we're gonna get I know it's it's it's crazy talk and then we have to go into an inch deep pool of all of the Assessments saying wildly different things While some of some of them may be saying the same thing, but they don't say it in the same way So everyone's confused about where they go. So my

Tara Gronhovd (35:56.7)
drives me nuts too.

Tara Gronhovd (36:07.1)
So confusing, creates so much confusion.

Bill Dippel (36:15.239)
question was, since you blend the seamlessly, how do you find that? How is that working for you? And have you had some success avoiding that one inch pond of the, you know, disc Colby anagram Clifton world?

Tara Gronhovd (36:31.024)
Yeah. So in our own work, so far, strengths is the only assessment that we're using. are, I am actually going to get certified in the echo listening assessment, but it's, that's more of a cognitive assessment. So it's more about a skill assessment than a personality or a motivator assessment. And so I feel like in my mind, I can easily separate those when working with someone and we can work on how do we help.

you build this skill, right? soundtracks, one of the things I feel like we're good at, is integration. So for example, with soundtracks, we took the concept of soundtracks and looked at every strength, looked at the raw and mature and said, what is a typical broken soundtrack for each strength and what would a healthy soundtrack look like? So I, I'm much more interested in how do we integrate these pieces so that, they don't

Sarah Collins (37:20.83)
Hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (37:29.116)
They don't have to compete with each other. In fact, they multiply each other. And so how can we do that? So we actually have a resource with all 34 strengths with broken and healthy soundtracks that we created for the shift event this last year. So we look at how we integrate. And I'm careful because we, all of us as coaches on our team are good at consuming and like, ooh, I love this idea. what about this concept?

Sarah Collins (37:32.723)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (37:55.964)
We're careful, we've become much more careful over the years of like this addresses this issue directly. But then how do we look at it through the strengths lens of, you know, so this is about mindset, everyone struggles and deals with mindset, but your strengths are going to impact what kind of mindset challenges you have and what you need from a mindset standpoint.

Sarah Collins (38:21.404)
Yeah, absolutely. And it makes me think about when we think about conflict and strengths, you know, we're going to have certain strengths like harmony, maybe empathy, maybe developer that are those sort of peacekeeper strengths that are like avoiding conflict maybe. And I could see people who lead with a lot of blue like that might feel like, is this assessment too nice because they're using it too nice because that's their strengths. Where inversely, if you've got command

Tara Gronhovd (38:36.85)
Hmm.

Sarah Collins (38:50.644)
competition, self-assurance, maybe even restorative, those might lean more into the conflict of it all and seem like people who are much more combative than those other folks. So it's even the strengths that you have could view how you see and then use and interpret the assessment itself.

Bill Dippel (39:12.879)
Now when Sarah was giving us the relationship theme, she was just reading down my top five there is where she was hitting on that. Sarah, I point out to clients frequently in a one-on-one situation or a one-on-just one or two that I would be a fool if I didn't coach you in a way that your assessment tells me is going to help and motivate you, which means over time I've had to cull that relationship side.

Tara Gronhovd (39:20.658)
I'm gonna go to the bathroom.

Bill Dippel (39:42.223)
And you're absolutely correct from that high relationship. Maybe I try too nice or think that it's just building on relationship that's going to make a difference for this person. When in reality I'm sitting next to a pure strategist or a pure executor and I have to come at them with facts and data fast, or I need to execute and start moving and get them involved in it because they don't want to talk about our weekend or where we, where we did other things and we have to

Sarah Collins (39:58.26)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (40:12.32)
I have to as a coach make that pivot so that we can accelerate and move directly to what we do. And you're absolutely right. We make that point. I'm coaching you in a way that I'm looking at your strengths. I'm not, that doesn't mean I am manipulating you. What it means is I'm communicating with you in a way that I think looking at your themes and as we start building on it, you can do too with other people so that we're communicating at a very high level.

Tara Gronhovd (40:28.914)
Okay.

Bill Dippel (40:40.856)
It's not a manipulation. It's a communication tool. And I absolutely agree with that. Tara, I cut you off right as you were starting. I'm so sorry.

Tara Gronhovd (40:44.039)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (40:48.474)
No, that's okay. I was just going to share, but you know, it's interesting because yes, a lot of the blue themes can struggle with conflict because they care about the relationship, but I lead with influencing and I can struggle with conflict because I don't want to, I don't want to shut a door or I don't want an opportunity to go away. And so sometimes if I'm not careful and if I'm not being intentional with certain types of clients, I might hold my punches back a little bit.

Because I'm not sure we haven't built that trust or safety yet. And I'm not sure if they're going, if I'm going to offend them or we're going to be done. and so I have to, mean, I have to really check myself because that's not my job. My job is to be honest. My job is to help them, you know, see and make that progress fast. But I have in my past, had to learn that lesson in some hard ways of, know, I didn't say something fast enough soon enough, and now we're down the road and it's awkward and hard.

Sarah Collins (41:24.872)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (41:31.657)
Right?

Tara Gronhovd (41:47.41)
Um, and now I have to go clean it up and be honest about the fact that I should have said it months ago. Um, yeah.

Sarah Collins (41:52.178)
Yeah, which is so interesting to me because looking at your report Harmony is 33.

Tara Gronhovd (41:58.97)
Yeah, mean, typically I don't care.

Sarah Collins (42:00.956)
Right. But it's interesting because, you know, people get confused about these things, right? Because like the way you're describing in that situation, those influencing themes look like the outcome of what we see harmony as. But you that's not where it's coming from. And so it's, I just always love to show people like this assessment is so nuanced because it is not, you see these 10 words and you know exactly everything about a person. There's so much in there.

Bill Dippel (42:04.55)
Hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (42:13.17)
Yeah. No.

Tara Gronhovd (42:22.226)
Hmm.

Sarah Collins (42:30.61)
which does make it a lot of work and time to dedicate to truly understand it. However, if you put that time in, imagine the impact you can have as a leader, as a manager, as a business owner. Incredible to be able to know this. And I'm really just like so keyed in on what you were saying about feedback earlier, Tara, about the impact, the intent and the impact part.

Tara Gronhovd (42:43.826)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (42:57.436)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (42:58.044)
I think that just keys up when I think about my strengths turns criticism to recognition. It's exactly on that same vein, just sort of like a different way to think about it or say it. And I just think it hits it so dead on. That's what we want to do. We need to see people. This assessment gives you a shortcut to see what's going on with them, how they are approaching something. Once you do that, the conflict will be easier because we've got to work things out.

So it doesn't have to really be conflict. It's just a discussion. It's just communication of like, I see you doing this. How do we change the outcome of what's happening based on, you know, I understand why you're doing it, but here's what's happening.

Tara Gronhovd (43:43.186)
Well, I mean, and that reminds me of sometimes I'm sure you get this. Someone will ask me, could you look at this person's profile and tell me how blah, blah, blah, or what blah, blah, blah. And I, and I'm really cautious to say, I've never met this person. So I cannot tell you how this shows up for them. And here's what I would be curious about. And I tell people strengths is an opportunity to be curious. It gives you clarity around where to be curious and what to be curious about.

Sarah Collins (44:10.878)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (44:12.764)
So I might be curious about how, and knowing their culture and knowing the raw side of some of that person's strengths, how this shows up when conflict arises because in this position they're going to have to deal with it. Or how this shows up when they make a mistake because there might be some shame that comes up when they make a mistake. And so how do they tend to resolve and own, take ownership of mistakes? So I would be curious about that.

Sarah Collins (44:24.691)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (44:37.66)
but I have no idea if they're mature. think that's one of the things you have to be careful about with any assessment is it does not measure mental health and it does not measure maturity. And so we can't, you cannot tell where on that spectrum those behaviors are going to show up.

Sarah Collins (44:55.282)
Absolutely. And I'm, so with you. do the exact same thing when people are like, tell me about this person. I'm like, well, I know a little bit about all those strengths, but I don't know anything about that person. So we can talk about what I know about the strengths and like you, like what I would be curious about. But like, I am not, I was, always tell people, I am not a mind reader. If it worked like that, I would be so rich because I could charge so much more money.

Tara Gronhovd (45:04.466)
Alright.

Bill Dippel (45:04.838)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (45:17.68)
Right?

Bill Dippel (45:19.492)
I would be world renowned in my coaching abilities. I, I, I think, yeah, exactly. I think where that crops up for me is the question I think many of us get to, which is now that we know this and we're starting to build a culture, I need to hire some people around this. And as strengths coaches, we are always no, no, no, this is not a hiring tool. And the explanation Tara that I often give for that exactly right in that vein is I don't know if we could have pre-assess them.

Sarah Collins (45:21.598)
That's right, that's right. Everyone would know my name.

Tara Gronhovd (45:22.437)
Okay.

Sarah Collins (45:35.316)
Hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (45:39.952)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (45:47.726)
I have no idea if they're using this maturely or immaturely. You very easily could shoot yourself in the foot thinking, I need to hire Wu. I need to hire self-assurance or sales or, you know, achiever. And it's in the basement for them and they are really hard to work with.

Sarah Collins (45:56.852)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (45:58.609)
Yes.

Tara Gronhovd (46:05.19)
We had, it's interesting. So every once in a while, we'll get hired to do third party interview screening, like in the last stage of a hiring process, because we can strength spot, right? So it's helpful to just kind of think, I think they likely have these strengths, but more so I'm looking at fit for culture. I'm looking at here are the indicators that there might be a good fit or here are some flags around, you know, potential issues.

Sarah Collins (46:17.395)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (46:26.004)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (46:33.14)
a couple of years ago, I was working with a client and they needed to hire, an aggressive sales psych, not aggressive, but a, a highly motivated sales person. Right. And this person had already taken strengths and they sent the results in advance and, and the, and the owner looked and said, this is going to be perfect. And I said, well, we'll just please interview them and be, and here's what I would be cautious about. And I ended up.

screening them and I said, I do not recommend here are some red flags. These things aren't showing up mature. even in the interview process and they said, no, we really think this is the right choice and the right fit. And it was less than three months and it did not work. but I think that's the other thing is sometimes in hiring in particular leaders are so feel so desperate that they will overlook what they know to be true about their own culture and their own needs.

Bill Dippel (47:13.989)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (47:28.338)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (47:30.416)
because they want it to work. Or they really like the person. And likability does not equate fit.

Sarah Collins (47:32.582)
Right. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Or being able to interview well does not equate fit or aptitude of the job.

Tara Gronhovd (47:43.276)
Right, right. Right.

Bill Dippel (47:47.022)
or success in the previous role that might've been similar, but the culture was different. Or there are all sorts of indicators where sometimes we stumble into a moment where we're recommending somebody or not recommending someone and we're, saying, you know, how does this play for them? I find usually I'm giving the interview people the questions of how would this show up for you more than I'm trying to make a recommendation. Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (47:51.642)
It's It's me.

Tara Gronhovd (48:13.764)
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah Collins (48:16.468)
going to move us to our LinkedIn poll. So for the poll today on LinkedIn, we asked when workplace conflict gets messy, how helpful is CliftonStrengths really? And we had 59 % of people said game changing. We had 32 % say helpful-ish, 5 % said too soft for conflict, and 5 % said never tried it. Thoughts?

Tara Gronhovd (48:19.689)
okay.

Tara Gronhovd (48:28.752)
Bye

Tara Gronhovd (48:33.798)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (48:44.262)
Yeah, that's so interesting. it tells me that whoever's answering your poll has, has learned enough about strengths probably to, to try it or to practice it. Right. I mean, often I find when I'm working with the team, I'm sure you do too. You're, you can almost predict where the points of conflict are going to be for that team because of just natural common patterns of dynamics.

Sarah Collins (48:57.054)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (49:06.142)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (49:12.15)
so sometimes we look like wizards or magicians because we're like, I wonder if this ever happens for you. And people are like, how did you know? and I, I think, you know, having strengths to help them build a roadmap for how to deal with it. We, we talk about having a conflict charter for teams and creating a conflict charter. it's really smart to.

Bill Dippel (49:35.109)
Smart.

Sarah Collins (49:35.804)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (49:38.332)
Figure out what are your rules of engagement around conflict when you don't have any.

So I don't think I probably answered your question about LinkedIn and what I thought about the poll,

Sarah Collins (49:44.392)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (49:50.408)
That is totally okay. I love what you had to say. love, can you tell the audience a little bit more about a conflict charter conflict charter and like what that entails?

Tara Gronhovd (50:00.518)
Well, sometimes it's not complicated and it's like, we identify a dynamic. So for example, I have a client that has several of the service and support people have high harmony and several of the advisors, it's a financial planning have high, like more, are more visionary and fast moving. Right. and so the people with high harmony are really unlikely to raise their hand and interrupt those people to say, I need something. And so we, we gave it a name.

I think they called it pineapple. I don't know why.

Sarah Collins (50:33.712)
my God, that's the safe word I use all the time. That's so funny.

Tara Gronhovd (50:36.146)
Or hammock. One of them, one of them had hammock. One of them had a, one of maybe it was hammock. anyway, it had, was vacation esque for some reason. but that they could say that and it would like, open up the, it would instantly name this dynamic that was causing some challenges and it would kind of give both parties permission.

Bill Dippel (50:37.733)
We now know Sarah's safe word. Oh no.

Sarah Collins (50:39.848)
No, I mean like it with teams.

Sarah Collins (50:58.516)
Hmm?

Tara Gronhovd (51:02.428)
to either ask for what they need or to slow down to kind of hear what the other person needs. So it can be as simple as that. Or it can be more complex of like, how will we provide feedback? How will we know when we're in tension? When will we be honest with each other? What are we afraid of? Like what's our primary fear under dealing with it? And what can we guarantee each other?

Sarah Collins (51:24.584)
Hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (51:29.454)
If we choose to come to each other and deal with it. So that could be, you personally, or could be as a team. but it's kind of, like I said, these rules of engagement of like we are. So what happens is as humans, we tend to brace for conflict and bracing does not help us prepare for when it happens. Bracing is really like a wish and a prayer that it won't ever happen again. And so instead, if we can prepare.

Sarah Collins (51:36.222)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (51:50.43)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (51:53.423)
Right.

Sarah Collins (51:53.545)
Right.

Tara Gronhovd (51:58.244)
And know how to practice. Then when it happens, we can say, we're ready for this. We know what we're supposed to do. I'm going to pull out the plan and I'm going to bring it to you. like, remember when we talked about that, can we work through this together? Because this thing that we have going on, isn't working. and, and they're like, you're right. This is that thing we talked about. This is the thing we agreed on in advance.

Sarah Collins (52:05.107)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (52:14.91)
Right.

Sarah Collins (52:21.652)
Hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (52:23.346)
And it decreases people's defensiveness because you've agreed in advance and given each other permission in advance.

Sarah Collins (52:29.202)
And I love that. The more I think about it, I'm thinking about, you know, like talking sticks, like when you're in a circle of a group, like at a camp and they're like, here's the talking stick. When you hold the stick, you can get to talk. I think that there is something so powerful when you're on a team and you're in a group.

to have these rituals that everyone has agreed on in advance that everyone knows what to do. Because honestly, we're all sort of like three year old kids out here. If we don't like make rules and rituals, we don't talk about things. We're just like, I don't know what to do. How would I even bring this up to her? yeah. And so, you know, just the, you're describing to me is like the camp, the workplace version of the talking stick. Like, hey, we've all agreed to this. And when you hold the talking stick, like you get to talk.

Tara Gronhovd (53:00.23)
Lord of the Flies.

Sarah Collins (53:14.638)
Or in this case, when you say pineapple, we all go, gosh, we're triggered out of our daily stupor. And we get to say, yeah, am I doing that thing where you feel like you can't interrupt and you have something you want to say to me? Like, yes, please. Like I want you to say it. Like we have, we know what this means. I just think that's really, really powerful. It's something I use in my business. And honestly, I feel like I should use it more because I think that we could, it's like this, it's like a leg up.

when working with each other, just so smart and strategic to plan ahead.

Bill Dippel (53:47.973)
And the men's groups that I work with we use a talking token whether it's a stick or something else. So Everyone else is holding space. So again, Sarah well said that's a ritual that we know You know, have a candle that we've lit that to be honest if the candle could talk man, I don't know what would happen But again, is there is there a specific reason for the candle? No other than it's a good ritual and we now know this is a safe space We can say what we want

Tara Gronhovd (53:48.114)
Yes.

Tara Gronhovd (53:52.306)
Mmm.

Sarah Collins (53:52.498)
Mmm.

Sarah Collins (54:04.168)
Yeah

Tara Gronhovd (54:11.346)
ritual.

Bill Dippel (54:14.34)
Your concept Tara of having that conflict charter reminded me of the idea of a prenuptial agreement and The idea we're gonna decide what what will happen if we're in a conflict while we still like each other while we still love each other and can we decide that now so that we aren't stabbing each other really hard when we're in a conflict moment and Yeah, I think that's that's a really powerful idea

Tara Gronhovd (54:21.905)
Mm, mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (54:37.799)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (54:42.272)
Speaking of prenuptials when you might need one Let's go right into an idea and you brought up the concept of dumpster fire earlier Let's talk about when a dumpster fire shows up for terror. Which themes do you think are are are? Burning and causing a dumpster fire for you

Tara Gronhovd (54:55.889)
Mmm.

Tara Gronhovd (55:01.916)
Hmm, currently or just like anytime?

Bill Dippel (55:04.254)
when give us the best example, whatever works for you.

Sarah Collins (55:05.404)
Whatever you want.

Tara Gronhovd (55:08.55)
I mean, I would say that I had a business before and there are certain tendencies I had that made that business not viable. Right. So I ended up creating something I couldn't sustain or maintain. didn't cashflow. So that was the main problem. And that had a lot to do with over customization.

Bill Dippel (55:29.944)
Yeah, that would do it, sure.

Tara Gronhovd (55:36.762)
So I have a tendency to over-customize individualization, communication, strategic, all want to, then ideation has 20 different ways we could customize that. Activator sometimes will pull the trigger before I even think about whether or not that's a wise or high ROI, you know, activity. So I've had to work really hard to manage that. I would say more, I don't know, it's not that recent, but last year we had a contracted employee.

Sarah Collins (55:40.148)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (55:53.588)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (56:06.866)
who was lovely and we needed more and it was challenging and I was kind of caught between my command and my connectedness and struggled to be as honest as I needed to be. And then by the time I realized we really did need to make a change, it felt like a complete surprise to that person and that was a failure. That was a leadership failure on my part. I mean, those are things I coach people not to do, right?

Sarah Collins (56:21.268)
you

Bill Dippel (56:28.567)
Yeah, that's a failure,

Sarah Collins (56:34.738)
Right.

Tara Gronhovd (56:34.892)
And so it's humbling to end up in those situations where you know you would have coached someone in a very different way than you were acting.

Bill Dippel (56:43.221)
And powerful that you point out. Yes, coaches, while we may understand this really well, we're just as susceptible to falling onto the pitfalls, hitting the landmines of bad management, sometimes bad ideas around what a business should be. It doesn't immune us from from stepping onto that. So thanks for pointing that out. I know I do it. yeah. Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (56:50.012)
Yes.

Tara Gronhovd (56:57.554)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (57:01.874)
That's why coaches need coaches.

Sarah Collins (57:03.816)
That's right. But also my positivity would say also great research for your business. You know that failure.

Bill Dippel (57:09.183)
And great learning moment. Great learning.

Tara Gronhovd (57:10.414)
I get to use, I mean, I use my own failure moments all the time in coaching. I don't use my family members as much as I use my own.

Sarah Collins (57:13.278)
That's right.

Bill Dippel (57:15.085)
course.

course.

Sarah Collins (57:18.366)
But it is, right? Like when you are living it, I know it makes you a better coach because you aren't just saying, I read a book and this is what I think. You're saying, no, I have lived here, right? The empathy you can have to say, I know what you're going through. I know how hard this is and here are some strategies, right? I mean, it really elevates you then for your clients.

Tara Gronhovd (57:25.17)
100%.

Right. Right.

Tara Gronhovd (57:36.004)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tara Gronhovd (57:44.336)
Yes.

Bill Dippel (57:44.439)
Yeah. All right. Well, let's follow that up with your firework moment. outside of the dumpster fire, when, when are you experiencing the bright, shiny love of fireworks in your themes? When are you in that flow?

Tara Gronhovd (57:50.194)
Mmm.

Tara Gronhovd (57:56.719)
I work.

I mean, we talked about it at the top of the podcast, but shift was a firework moment in a lot of ways, you know, so many, so, I was able to use so many of my strengths in the planning and also the mature side of the strength. So I gave us a year long runway activator, really wanted to pull the trigger faster, but I knew we would need a long runway to get ready for something we'd never done before.

Sarah Collins (58:28.028)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (58:28.588)
And it was a heavy additional lift. It's not like we weren't busy. and then, you know, leading all the way up to the day of the day of shift, I'm sure you've had these, I mean, it was a peak experience moment for me where I felt like every, every part of me was fully alive that day. You know, my connectedness, my individualization, my arranger, my strategic, everything like was.

Sarah Collins (58:46.356)
Wow.

Tara Gronhovd (58:55.842)
all coming together. I was not nervous for one second. I keynoted after John Acuff, which was a really weird move on my part. And I wasn't nervous. And I think the reason was just that I was, I felt like I was fully operating in my full, in my full strengths. And so that would be, that would be a firework moment in my daily work. My firework moments right now tend to be more, I love working on the business planning. We're working on growing and scaling. And I love.

Sarah Collins (59:05.652)
Wow.

Tara Gronhovd (59:24.828)
figuring out how we're gonna do that.

Sarah Collins (59:26.964)
That's incredible. Well, Tara, you have been a phenomenal guest. I think we really did the topic justice when we think about is CliftonStrengths too nice for workplace conflict. I think we all know it's not, but it can be if it's not in the right hands or being used right. And hopefully people got some good tips and tricks on how to deal with some of that workplace conflict. Tara, you just had.

Tara Gronhovd (59:36.486)
Mm.

Tara Gronhovd (59:43.196)
I'm gay.

Sarah Collins (59:53.14)
You came with a whole bag of tricks. So thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise with our guests today.

Tara Gronhovd (59:55.282)
Mm.

Tara Gronhovd (59:59.26)
Thank you so much for having me. This was a fun conversation and I just really appreciate the work that you both do. So thank you.

Bill Dippel (01:00:07.771)
I think we can say we appreciate what you're doing how you're blending these together and putting shift together Congratulations, that's pretty phenomenal Hold on. already will see I wrote it down already. So I mean we have we got to see May 14th. All right, so And where is it again? Give us one more time St. Cloud never been so actually that that bodes well, I always like to see a new spot

Sarah Collins (01:00:10.504)
Yeah.

Tara Gronhovd (01:00:15.364)
Yeah, will you come? May 14th, put it on your calendar.

Tara Gronhovd (01:00:27.43)
St. Cloud,

Tara Gronhovd (01:00:33.134)
May is, May is a way better time to come here than, you know, half the year. So.

Bill Dippel (01:00:38.647)
Got it. Got it. Perfect. Awesome. Well, Tara, thank you so much for your time today. We've loved having you on with us. Thank you for bringing a lot of knowledge and thoughts around real workplace conflict and how you deal with it and your coaching practice. And thanks so much for just just being genuine and honest. So thanks for that. And with that, we are going to tell our arsonists and our guests, thanks for coming and we will talk soon.

Sarah Collins (01:00:39.816)
I know that.

Sarah Collins (01:01:08.926)
Bye!