Strengths On Fire

Bill Dippel (00:01.888)
Sarah, are you going to be able to concentrate today? Yes, I do. I see it.

Sarah Collins (00:03.635)
I was like, do you see me texting right now? Just sending an SOS out to my friends, no big deal. Just emergency 911 situation over here. Taylor has announced a release party in movie theaters across the country, October 3rd through 5th for the release of her new album. There will be a music video. OK, so I'm just a little under the gun because I'm not going to be able to get on and get the tickets. And know, those Swifties swarm on everything so fast.

Bill Dippel (00:12.027)
emergency. Yes.

Bill Dippel (00:32.078)
You can't, you know, you're gonna, this is an uphill battle for you today. I don't know if you're gonna survive.

Pamela Nelson (00:32.654)
Sarah Collins (00:35.443)
I mean, I was really locked in until I unfortunately looked at my phone and then I was like, no. So hopefully my SOS to my friends, they'll be like, don't worry, we already got us some.

Bill Dippel (00:43.065)
for our

Bill Dippel (00:48.749)
Of course, to our arsonists, I asked Sarah, should we pause recording for a while? didn't, you know, I didn't want her to be out there really struggling during the podcast. So you are.

Sarah Collins (00:54.396)
You dead.

Sarah Collins (00:59.943)
but I'm a professional, okay? I can persist through and get this podcast done and through the finish line, even though I will be thinking about Taylor in the back of my mind. But when am I not? Let's be honest, when am I not?

Bill Dippel (01:11.178)
I realize, I realize. mean, we on this podcast, we're generally thinking about Taylor somehow, right? We're we have some part of it going on. So let's see if you can think of Taylor and your special question today. You're ready. All right. If one of your top strengths was suddenly taken away for one week, which one would cause total chaos in your life? And how would we know?

Sarah Collins (01:18.12)
That's right.

Sarah Collins (01:24.218)
Okay, bring it on.

Sarah Collins (01:39.859)
So it would cause chaos because it wouldn't be there anymore. I think it would be my woo. If you took my woo away, I think it would cause chaos because with my communication and my activator, I already sometimes say things that like maybe I shouldn't, but because I have woo, care about people liking me. So I will temper it sometimes and like, make it a joke. And I feel like if woo,

Bill Dippel (01:42.7)
Yes.

Pamela Nelson (01:43.342)
Mmm.

Bill Dippel (01:47.363)
Hmm.

Sarah Collins (02:09.069)
left building, I might be like meaner. So you would know because I would maybe just say things, you know, and not care about if you liked me, it would be like probably how I treat my husband because you know, he doesn't like feed my woo anymore.

Pamela Nelson (02:10.606)
Mm.

Bill Dippel (02:25.934)
Cory, Cory, apologize for you right now. I just wow.

Sarah Collins (02:29.297)
be like, you know, I'm much harsher to him than I am to other people in the world. And if I started just being that harsh with everybody, they'd be like, damn, what crawled up her butt?

Bill Dippel (02:39.865)
She got mad quick on that all of a sudden. Woo. So interesting. I I was going to tell you for me and our arsonists know you don't know that question prior to coming, but I had a second to think about it. So when I first looked at it, I thought woo for me, too. I love that. I always say it's the best. I like that. But as I actually had a couple of minutes to think about it, I actually drew back and I went to connectedness for me.

Pamela Nelson (02:41.71)
Ooh.

Sarah Collins (02:52.606)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (03:07.251)
Say more

Pamela Nelson (03:07.288)
Gosh, it's the same for me, Belle. It is, it is, yeah.

Bill Dippel (03:09.973)
Is it? Is it really? Yeah. And and the reason for me taking the connectedness away is if it went away, suddenly for me, everything's not aligned or, you know, there aren't there aren't the leaps to have ideas of where we're at, what we're going. Things don't may not be connected. And then all of a sudden I'm you know, I feel like I'm out there adrift. I don't know if I'm making it. So I think people would spot me as being a little

Sarah Collins (03:10.75)
my gosh, all right.

Bill Dippel (03:40.105)
Like you said maybe a little less friendly. I don't see the tie-ins. I don't know that I need to make that connection Because of where we're at and where what we're gonna do next And so I don't know that I'm all invested in the conversation and the person in the time So I think that's how you'd spotted in me as I would be I would be less blue, right? I think my connectedness really fuels the blue in me. So Pam, how about you what?

Pamela Nelson (04:01.71)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (04:02.096)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (04:05.676)
Yeah, I feel so connected to you as you said that.

This is going to be a great podcast. Surprise, surprise. Exactly what you said. I would feel adrift. I wouldn't feel as drawn into people's stories. One of the other themes would be taking over. Yeah, exactly what you said. I'm so glad you said connectedness because that brings me joy to be connected to someone I'm on a podcast with. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (04:12.4)
Surprise, surprise.

Sarah Collins (04:37.298)
Oh gosh, and now that we've heard your beautiful voice as you're here explaining how connected you're now feeling, why don't you introduce yourself Pamela, tell everyone who you are, what you do, and give us a rundown of your top 10 strengths.

Bill Dippel (04:37.388)
Wow. man.

Pamela Nelson (04:43.64)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (04:50.382)
Yeah, absolutely. My name is Pamela Nelson. I am a Gallup certified strengths coach. I work with Align as a contractor, but I also have my own business called Single Step Consulting. Also, I'm on a podcast called the Grounding and Growing Leadership podcast, talking all things strengths and so love having the strengths conversation. I am also a grandmother of six and yes.

Sarah Collins (05:16.388)
No, okay, I have to stop you because everyone needs to go to the YouTube video immediately and look at this woman. You would never guess that she was a grandmother. Like literally could you be more stunning? Hashtag goals, hashtag goals Pamela. Sorry, I had to interject there because blowing my mind.

Pamela Nelson (05:27.29)
thank you, thank you, thank you.

yes, yeah. Well, I just have to say.

Bill Dippel (05:37.624)
That's it. It's another great hair day on the podcast today. I'm just pointing that out for you know, not from me from everyone else. So yes.

Pamela Nelson (05:46.417)
Thank you. Thank you, Bill. I love that. And thank you for that woo that just like interjected that I feel also very connected to you at the moment. Thank you. Yeah, so that is what I do. And I also have authored a series of children's books. And so yeah, so I do like you said, the voice, I do have a voice that does tend to bring peace and calm to people. And so I'm also a counselor as well.

Bill Dippel (05:49.175)
You

Bill Dippel (05:56.536)
Yes, it's perfect.

Sarah Collins (06:03.101)
Gosh.

Pamela Nelson (06:15.054)
and to kind of bring that into the counseling space. So when you were talking about if you didn't have your woo, Sarah, that you and your husband would be in a really interesting space, it's like, I know a person who can help with that.

Bill Dippel (06:28.214)
Ha ha ha ha!

Sarah Collins (06:28.467)
I love that you are a woman of many hats and that is very cool and aspiring to see. So thank you for being here. Yeah, what are the children's books? Tell us.

Pamela Nelson (06:30.486)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (06:35.767)
Shout out your books. What is the series?

Pamela Nelson (06:38.126)
Yeah, well they are called the Sticky Stories series. Sticky Stories are stories that help people get unstuck from certain seasons in their life so that they are free to write the stories yet to be written. So the first one is called Make Good Choices and the second one is called You Are Not a Mistake and the third one that is going to be coming out is called When My Friends Aren't Friendly.

Ooh, do we ever need that one right now? So they're secretly for adults, but they are ones that children, you you read to children, but it's actually for you, right?

Sarah Collins (07:08.531)
Yeah

Sarah Collins (07:15.797)
my gosh, I love this. What ages do you rec, sorry, I'm literally looking them up right now. I'm not doing Taylor Swift things, I am looking up her books.

Bill Dippel (07:20.919)
I'm not. I am not certain. I am not certain what Sarah's doing right now. Her phone is in her hand. I was 5050 on the book. So yes. All right. All right.

Pamela Nelson (07:21.518)
Nope.

Sarah Collins (07:28.495)
I am staying on Taz.

Pamela Nelson (07:30.953)
Yes, actually, actually there isn't an age it isn't for, I will just say, because where the first book really came from was from some of the younger clients that I counsel. And, and especially in that title of you are not a mistake. A lot of kids that would come in and of course we as adults feel this as well, but we get stuck in the shame cycle. And so I would say to them, you know what? Here's what I want you to repeat.

Sarah Collins (07:35.569)
Okay.

Pamela Nelson (07:58.08)
You made a mistake. You're not a mistake. If you think you're a mistake, you're mistaken. And so, but you know what? We need this in every space. We need this at work. We need this as coaches. Everyone needs it. So it's this little mantra of, okay, okay, that one I get to, I get to still practice that tomorrow, but I get to say over myself, I made a mistake. I'm not a mistake. If I think I'm a mistake, I'm mistaken.

Sarah Collins (08:28.467)
Okay, I am taking this with me and you are now like implanting this because I have one child in particular, seven year old boy, and he gets so, he has a really hard time handling guilt. And so if he messes up and he's feeling guilty, it's a whole big emotional baggage, you know, and that comes out in a variety of ways. And we've been trying to work as much as we can with him to help him realize exactly what you're saying.

Pamela Nelson (08:32.003)
Be-

Pamela Nelson (08:42.67)
you

Pamela Nelson (08:48.076)
right?

Yeah.

you

Sarah Collins (08:55.987)
because he hates losing or making mistakes or not doing what he's supposed to do. And I'm taking it. I am not a mistake. Let me make sure I know it. I am not a mistake. I made a mistake, I am not a mistake. If I think I'm a mistake, I am mistaken. girl, I love that. We can just stop the podcast right now. Great job everybody.

Pamela Nelson (09:01.72)
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it starts with I made a mistake. I'm not a mistake. If I think I'm a mistake, I'm mistaken. Isn't that so great? Mic drop. Mic drop.

Bill Dippel (09:17.502)
Mm.

I'm out. You know what? It's been a great episode. I'm actually going to pick up the one everybody's mean to me and just have that in my personal reading library, right? Which usually my friends aren't friendly. You know, I can't wait. Some of the times getting off our podcast with Sarah, I feel

Pamela Nelson (09:25.582)
that's in yours yeah it's it's when my friends aren't friendly is what is the other one that's coming out yeah

Sarah Collins (09:27.244)
man.

Sarah Collins (09:39.635)
E?

Pamela Nelson (09:39.746)
you

Bill Dippel (09:42.23)
I love it. Pamela, I love that that's what you're that's part of what you're doing because those especially your and you're not tackling the light topics, right? Everyone's mean to me and and right how how that how often that crops up both in young life and even as an adult. I would imagine many adults reading them to their kids are going to be like, well, that's a pretty good thought. I could take this take this tomorrow and run with it to that business meeting. So

Sarah Collins (09:44.531)
Guilty as sin.

Pamela Nelson (09:49.656)
Thank you.

Pamela Nelson (09:53.838)
Ugh, no. Right?

Pamela Nelson (10:05.472)
It's, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I describe it as Dr. Seuss meets Mr. Rogers meets Brene Brown.

Bill Dippel (10:18.549)
Hahaha

Sarah Collins (10:18.643)
Okay, sold. I mean, I was already sold, but sold more. Okay, you've got to give us a rundown of your top 10 strengths. We need to know where this powerhouse, entrepreneurial, mega, mega entrepreneur all comes from.

Pamela Nelson (10:24.45)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (10:24.723)
Now, now it's in.

Yeah, let's hear them.

Pamela Nelson (10:36.814)
OK. Well, I actually lead with strategic. then coming in with my second theme, which we already addressed here, is connectedness. Yep. And then we have relator, individualization. And here comes activator, which drives a lot of the time. And then I have this combination of activator, achiever, self-assurance.

Sarah Collins (10:41.789)
clearly.

Bill Dippel (10:48.085)
Who knows?

Bill Dippel (10:56.179)
There it is. All right.

Pamela Nelson (11:03.84)
So that little package there gets a lot done. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (11:04.243)
you

Bill Dippel (11:07.238)
I'm curious you put those together that way because I'll often talk about Activator and Achiever how they're not opposites but they approach differently. You threw in self-assurance with it. How great is that? A third one to add to that mix. I am comfortable in whichever choice I make at that in Activator and Achiever. Fantastic.

Pamela Nelson (11:12.13)
Mmm. Mmm.

Pamela Nelson (11:19.33)
Right? Yeah.

Yeah, it is. I love that I was created with that. So it also helps me to understand that when other people can't like strategically see things, that activator, achiever, self-assurance, like all I can say is I just know and I don't always have to speak it.

but I can lead from a place of connectedness, find other people's motivators in that individualization and help people get to where they need to go. Yeah. Yep.

Sarah Collins (11:52.819)
Hmm.

Sarah Collins (11:58.632)
Wow.

Bill Dippel (11:59.989)
Wow, perfect. And then you jump into restorative.

Sarah Collins (12:01.211)
Really well said.

Pamela Nelson (12:03.726)
Restorative, yeah, my restorative, I tell you what, over this last month of all the things happening in the world, that's very active, and then belief, and then our special topic for today, empathy, yeah, yeah, empathy is hard. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (12:09.556)
You

Bill Dippel (12:18.249)
our topic today. Empathy. Yeah. And I think, I think I can hear that empathy coming through writing children's books, right? Stepping, stepping into counseling and having an empathetic reaction, resonating with my connectedness. think that empathy, I'm surprised it's 10 for you. I get the feeling empathy is a pretty big part of your life.

Pamela Nelson (12:27.288)
yeah. Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (12:33.334)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (12:41.992)
It is a big part, but I will tell you that my other top nine strengths really bring it into balance. And so like, this is where we partner our strengths to show up healthy. And especially, I love this topic today because, you know, empathy is a big space that I am in all the time, but I, I, I like to also, have you guys seen the movie inside out? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (13:06.863)
yeah. I have I have 11 grand or four depending on how you count grandkids. Of course, it's I think it's on a loop out front constantly. Yeah. So

Sarah Collins (13:06.916)
my gosh, yes, of course, one and two.

Pamela Nelson (13:12.864)
Yes, yes, it's on a loop, right? So I love to picture our top 10 strengths as those emojis in our mind, right? You know, so it just is so helpful in the conversation, like who's at the control panel, who needs to back away. Oftentimes I will, you know, I will say to my restorative, okay, it's time for you to back away now. Strategic just needs to be here and just needs to listen.

Sarah Collins (13:23.047)
I love that.

Pamela Nelson (13:40.866)
You know, my relator just needs to show up and just really be that intentional seeing something in someone and holding back. The art of listening, as we learned at our last coaches gathering that we all had together, is so important. And of course, I don't know if you've taken that test on another side note, but I listen through the lens of connectedness. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (14:05.448)
Yes, I did take it while we were on site and I'm talking to Brandon about, you know, what we do with it, how maybe we continue with it. So it'll be interesting. Yeah, it's another interesting component to what we do and how we bring another, I guess, coaching strength outside of the Pure Strengths toolbox that we use. So, yeah.

Pamela Nelson (14:09.239)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (14:16.823)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (14:31.094)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, but I also, you I'm a storyteller. So as you can already tell. So when you picture those characters from inside out, and then that's our top 10 strengths, I can see where I'm inviting and partnering with these different strengths to come kind of to the control panel. And then I'm also gently inviting one of my strengths to invite someone else to go to the back. Let's just take a break with this one for a while.

Sarah Collins (14:33.468)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (14:36.337)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Pamela Nelson (15:00.59)
come forward empathetically. This is where belief and empathy are very close to one another for me. And sometimes they can be at war with each other with my own personal values and beliefs. And what's beautiful is the connectedness and the empathy when those two partner together. It's really healthy.

Sarah Collins (15:20.85)
I was just gonna say I was distracted because I was making a note to see if chat gbt could make the strengths into inside out characters. Right? was like, okay, this is great for our social media. We can put a little thing and be like, if the strengths were in your head as the inside out characters, get the same type of animation. Anyway, sorry.

Bill Dippel (15:22.674)
Good, really, really nice. it, go ahead, sir.

Pamela Nelson (15:30.254)
Yes! Why did I not think of this? I use it all the time! Yes!

Bill Dippel (15:46.876)
So good. Well, and you bring up.

Pamela Nelson (15:47.726)
So good.

Sarah Collins (15:48.048)
My activator was like, I need to write this down immediately.

Bill Dippel (15:51.259)
Yeah, she did. I mean, she's I'm still not positive she's not checking Taylor Swift, but I'm I'm I can only tell so much. But, know, you brought up your number 10. You came in with that empathy and how it gets leveled out or evened up with so many of the other themes in your top 10. But that leads us directly into the to the hot topic today. And it's a good one. Right. We I think we've all coached.

Pamela Nelson (15:56.172)
Yeah

Pamela Nelson (16:08.749)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (16:13.358)
Okay. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (16:17.586)
a wide variety of people that have empathy in different spots of that upper loading of the strength and column. And today's question is, does empathy belong in the C suite? It's a it's a it can be a tough, tough. Yeah, it can be a tough theme to have if you're if you're leading a wide variety of varied people. So from that, have you had a lot of experience with empathy in the C suite, Pamela, something that you feel pretty strongly about?

Pamela Nelson (16:29.218)
Dun dun dun.

Sarah Collins (16:30.845)
Bum bum bum.

Pamela Nelson (16:34.542)
Hmm.

Pamela Nelson (16:47.362)
Yeah, well, thank you. You said bring your honest opinion. And so empathy can be challenging in the C-suite, but I absolutely think it's needed. And so being able to coach someone in the C-suite when they have high empathy is only going to benefit the culture, the organization as a whole. Because we show up as whole people.

Bill Dippel (16:50.906)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (17:11.31)
We can't just have strategy without recognizing that if we're going to be a people forward organization, that we also have to be able to, in some senses, put ourselves in their shoes, but also not assigning where it comes raw is that I carry everything. I don't just care. I carry. And so teaching someone that I'm still a caring person, but I don't need to carry.

everything. so that leader who's in that C-suite that may lead high with empathy, these are things that we work on.

Sarah Collins (17:49.842)
love that I care, but I don't need to carry that I feel like could be such a great takeaway for those who are leading with high empathy because one of the ways I describe empathy to people is a lot of people with high empathy. It's like they have their chest cavity cracked open and they're absorbing those feelings and and emotions from the people around them whether they want to or not depending on how they've worked with the boundaries around their empathy.

Pamela Nelson (17:53.07)
Yes.

Sarah Collins (18:17.627)
And that is so powerful when it comes to building relationships because you have this innate intuitive sense about what people are kind of going through. can just those high empathy people. It's this magical thing. I think I think it's the most magical of all of the strengths because if you see someone with high empathy work, they can spot someone who walk in a room. That person might not say anything and they're like something's wrong with Karen.

Pamela Nelson (18:34.286)
Mm.

Pamela Nelson (18:41.602)
Yes.

Pamela Nelson (18:45.624)
Yep.

Sarah Collins (18:46.003)
there's something wrong, I can just tell, you know, they have that and people also sort of magnetize to them in a lot of ways, because they can sense that they can sense it, whether they know all of that or not. But it's like, I feel like I can open up to you and you're going to understand it. And so super magnetic as a strength in terms of building relationships, but also super dangerous. I think that empathy is dangerous. And sometimes people think dangerous seems like a

Pamela Nelson (18:48.419)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (18:53.134)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (18:58.68)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (19:10.434)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (19:15.047)
big word to use about a strength. But if you don't have boundaries around that, whoa, you are just getting a tidal wave of someone else's emotions and separating what's your emotion versus what's their emotion. How do you really feel about this? Where is your place in it? It can be really hard. And I have coached people who have high empathy and they have not worked on putting boundaries around it. And they could cry at the drop of a pin.

Pamela Nelson (19:20.045)
Yes.

Pamela Nelson (19:24.334)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (19:41.623)
Okay.

Sarah Collins (19:41.714)
Like they're very fragile sometimes with that emotional state because they're just kind of out here getting whiplashed in emotions by the people around them, especially if they have negative people around them or some hard situations and the people they know that can be really, really exhausting. So empathy is this powerhouse of a strength. I think it's so magical. But what I like to say is with great power comes great responsibility.

Pamela Nelson (20:09.614)
Yes, yeah, yeah, so true that differentiation between your emotions and mine and and when it works really well. So I'm going to give a little bit of an example and this is going to date me. So this will actually like say like I just turned 60 this year. So this will date me. Yes, it's true. It's true. So

Sarah Collins (20:16.563)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (20:26.291)
No, you're lying.

Bill Dippel (20:28.759)
What? What?

Pamela Nelson (20:33.198)
Most people probably haven't watched Star Trek The Next Generation with Jean-Luc Picard. you're trying to get like Bill's like, what do you mean? Right, okay, right, okay. So there's a role in, and again, we're gonna call this like the C-suite. So this is in the engineering, this is where they're steering the whole ship from. Everything is leading from there, the captain's chair. But right next to the captain is the counselor.

Bill Dippel (20:41.593)
Who hasn't watched? Never mind, sorry. Of course.

Sarah Collins (20:41.651)
Well, of course, Bill, you have watched it.

Pamela Nelson (21:02.912)
And the counselor is there to be able to sense what is happening both within the leaders and within the enemies across the screen. And is quiet, but when needed, then brings forth this great amount of wisdom. And that's just this really good, I think, just picture, if you ever want to see, her name is Deanna Troy, just this picture of when it's used in a healthy way.

that you are there to bring that perspective of, this is very felt. And for those, I've led people who have 70 % strategic thinking and 30%.

Sarah Collins (21:30.685)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (21:42.414)
influencing and there isn't any relationship building themes in their top 10 and they they poo poo people that's fun grandma word with empathy and and what I want to say is okay finish this sentence for me or what happens when you go from a hot tub into a cold plunge you feel and then they answer it

and then have another statement and I will say, and you will feel, and then they answer it. So you have feelings. They just may be hiding from you. You need to be able to realize that as a human, we all need to human better. And yes, you're gonna lead through strategic and influencing, but this person with relationship themes is a gift to the C-suite.

Sarah Collins (22:15.443)
Mmmmm

Pamela Nelson (22:33.548)
to be able to have that wholeness brought in again when mature.

Bill Dippel (22:38.607)
Wow.

Sarah Collins (22:38.609)
Wow, say it again for the people in the back. mean, seriously, I think this is so important because I have seen leaders at the top who I don't know that they don't have empathy, but the way it looks to everyone is that they don't. And I get it. It's high stakes, especially depending on the size of your company, what your role is.

Pamela Nelson (22:59.694)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (23:03.579)
you have to make some hard decisions. There are high stakes. There can be a lot of financial impact. So I get that it can be potentially seem advantageous to push away the thoughts of how this is going to emotionally impact people because you don't want to have to feel that. Right. So I, but I think too much of that.

Pamela Nelson (23:14.99)
Hmm.

Pamela Nelson (23:21.58)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (23:26.439)
I think it's bad for the world. think it's hard for your company because yes, you have to do that. But if you, what does it mean if you are only looking at numbers, dollars and cents statistics, and you disregard the human element, what does that do to your soul?

Pamela Nelson (23:28.512)
I know. Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (23:47.146)
Yeah, well, it leads to dictatorship if you only have that. people who have high empathy do, if it is mature, they build trust in a powerful way. And we need trust to be built with our analyticals, with our strategic thinkers, with those that we can trust that they're reliable in their executing. But we need to have these two elements, so head trust and heart trust.

Bill Dippel (23:48.077)
Fair.

Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (24:16.536)
Right? So here's the difference. Head trust without heart, heart trust feels cold and transactional. Heart trust without head trust feels risky and unstable. In order to have momentum in a C-suite, we need both.

Sarah Collins (24:31.985)
Yeah. I feel that so deeply that the, especially what you said, the head trust without the heart trust, right? That unstableness that this is too big of a risk. Like I can't trust this. What does this mean? Do, and, and, and I think your people are asking, do the people at the top even care about us? Do we matter? You know what? And, and, and I think hard decisions can be made with both head and heart.

Pamela Nelson (24:40.93)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (24:52.43)
Hmm, right. Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (25:01.408)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (25:02.584)
Yeah, very much so. I, Pamela, thank you for taking me on a blast to the past for Jean-Luc Picard. So just because, you know, we're all being honest here, I will be 60 in February. So I'm of that generation where we both saw that particularly coming up. I, of course, consider it the second best Star Trek ever.

Pamela Nelson (25:11.214)
Yes, engage.

Pamela Nelson (25:20.174)
Bye.

Bill Dippel (25:29.046)
I had to watch the original routinely as a child and thought it was amazing. But you bring up a really interesting component of that show, which is I had never considered Diana Troy as anything additional other than just somebody on the set. But you're absolutely right. If you look at the way that was put together, now we've added the empathetic blue feeling component to the bridge.

Pamela Nelson (25:32.142)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (25:50.851)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (25:56.408)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (25:58.123)
that was always a technical get us from A to B, make that happen. It's almost like an in and out back then for where are we going to go and how are we going to feel about it when we get there? Are we doing the right thing not only based on the targeting and the destination, but is it the right thing to do emotionally? Is it the right thing to do from a feeling point of view? I love that you brought I've never considered that in that show and I did watch it.

Pamela Nelson (26:01.198)
Right?

Pamela Nelson (26:19.096)
Hmm. Hmm.

Bill Dippel (26:26.829)
quite a bit. fascinating you bring that up for me. Thank you very much for doing that. I to talk about how we feel great about the people that are in those roles and how we might bond more to the people that in the C suite that have that empathy. I was working with a client recently and I'm starting to work with

Pamela Nelson (26:27.831)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (26:46.062)
Mm.

Bill Dippel (26:53.389)
Everyone in the in the c-suite at this company and the ceo is going to retire soon So they're looking at one of the other groups to come in and i'm working with all of them and moving through and one of them I was meeting with one-on-one yesterday and She said hey, I I I gotta be honest. I'm loving everything that strength says I see it. I don't know that I have the same strengths as the person that's currently in that role and

Pamela Nelson (27:22.007)
and

Bill Dippel (27:23.169)
He's really loved, right? There's a lot of, and when you look at him, he has a lot of blue. I haven't pulled up his report, empathy's up there somewhere, but he tends to be that leader that leads with the heart and also, you I'll draw a strategic blend to it, but there's, there can be pitfalls to that. There can be, I don't, I am afraid of ruffling relationships because of all the blue that's here.

But in general, think his tenure and his time there will be regarded on reflection from everyone else as heartfelt, genuine and a good guiding hand. And this person was being very honest and saying, I don't know if that's me. I'm not certain I can bring that to this. And as us as coaches know, and I think we all know where we're going with this, my response to that was we can put anyone in that seat.

Pamela Nelson (27:58.862)
Hmm.

Bill Dippel (28:16.746)
based on any strengths that they're bringing and make them successful. The way we do it, right, is to allow you to see what you do really, really well, what you bring to the table, and then make you aware of the people around you so that you know who you're leaning on for the dynamic partnerships, understanding the communication better. So you're moving the needle in the way that you do it. Everybody understands it and knows why you're doing it. And then together as a team, you're really rowing the boat.

Pamela Nelson (28:20.46)
Yes.

Bill Dippel (28:46.524)
And that really, I brought that up to them in the way that I talk a lot of my clients, which is my particular lawyer for my company. She's an influencer and she's a fabulous lawyer. But some of the other people, I do work with their team. Some of the other lawyers, the relationship lawyers are unbelievably good lawyers because they build relationships with the clients and the jury and they're...

Pamela Nelson (28:59.79)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (29:06.988)
Yes.

Bill Dippel (29:11.774)
Right. And by the way, the strategic lawyers on the staff are phenomenal lawyers because they will strategize and go over it and work around it and make that happen. And the executing lawyers, right, they will just be there till midnight working, executing, getting it. So again, if the role is and as we know from the Gallup side, success is what we're aiming at. Weakness is anything that stands in the way of success. If you're pushing with.

Pamela Nelson (29:16.174)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (29:39.071)
the group and understanding what you do well, but you're also radiating to the group and communicating that effectively, it becomes a really good success environment where everybody steps in. So I again, my take on it, I would agree. I because I'm all blue. I get it. I think every C-sweeter needs to have blue. I think empathy is well deserved and loved in that area. But based on my own experiences, even in the C-suite, man, I got tripped up by it.

Pamela Nelson (29:58.04)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (30:01.4)
Mm.

Pamela Nelson (30:06.956)
Yes.

Bill Dippel (30:07.166)
There were times it felt heavy. It does feel heavy. And I think the person that took the job after me not nearly as blue and is doing phenomenal at it. So I, yeah, I resonate with what you're saying on that. I love how would you counsel someone if they had that idea around? I'm not certain I'm that fit, right? How can I do that if I don't have the empathy that that I see in that role currently?

Sarah Collins (30:08.189)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (30:15.02)
Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (30:34.67)
Yeah, well, exactly as you did. You know, how do we move you? And I'm going to say just when, when you have the strength that she did, that gives you that authority, right? So you take that authority and part of that is bringing that great team around you and, recognizing where there are other things to consider. So this is where I think empathy, when it comes in mature, doesn't name the hard, but asks questions to have people consider.

Sarah Collins (30:44.851)
you

Pamela Nelson (31:04.28)
Do we need to bring this people group forward or this energy that we're feeling right now? I think when empathy shows up raw, they just spew out everything that they feel like people are feeling. And then that can be dysregulating for a whole boardroom table or leadership table, whatever that is. But when empathy is mature and can ask those questions to draw out

you know, hmm, where is this coming from? I'm sensing some hesitancy there. So what they're probably experiencing is fear or frustration or, you know, even anger that somebody isn't agreeing with me. How do I ask a question? How do I invite someone to the table? As you said, your client, Bill, who is a really great question answer or asker and, people with empathy, when you can grow in that, in that skill.

to be able to, like you're sensing it, but it's not powerful if you name it. In counseling, what I need is for my clients to name. I can sense what they're feeling and sense what's going on, but the most powerful change comes when it's my realization. So that's where that person brings other people to the table.

Sarah Collins (32:16.261)
Thank

Bill Dippel (32:21.214)
Yeah. And I want to harken back to not to, I guess, not to polish the badge on each of us or the other coaches that listen to our podcast. But one way we we step in and really help is we become the Diana Troy of that C-sweeter. Let's talk about your feelings. Let's talk about is this the right move to make and who else here in the organization possesses those skills. So, you know, again, adding that wrinkle of

Sarah Collins (32:21.66)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (32:36.524)
Yeah? Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (32:46.158)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (32:50.484)
dynamic partnership and being able to bounce ideas off of highly blue, sympathetic, empathetic people really is a superpower. And as a C-Sweeter that may not have it, knowing you can do it and what strengths you can use to make those questions, that's, think, where the power lies.

Pamela Nelson (32:56.984)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (33:03.949)
and

Pamela Nelson (33:07.456)
Yes, it is. And, and you know, that intuition, we need to pay attention, especially those with, with high blue. And it's not that we don't have it if we don't have that in our top 10, but, but we need to pay attention to our guts. and that intuition, however, does it always need to be in the driver's seat? I love what you said, Bill, that this is where we partner with our other strengths. you know, feelings are information.

they're telling me something, that doesn't mean that they're always true in the moment. So how I experience something and how you experience even like this time, like, you know, Sarah's off in, in Swifty land, you know, she's like, did we get the seeds or not?

Bill Dippel (33:52.371)
Sarah, are you still with us? Sarah, are you here? By the way, I just got my AMC ticket. Just got it. So no, totally kidding. Go on. Sorry, Pamela. Go on.

Sarah Collins (33:53.619)
I'm here. I'm here. I'm in a where

Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (33:59.426)
no, no, it's okay. But, but we also have to boss our feelings around too. Like, is this true because it's present? And as a counselor, often what I see happen is that a former chapter is coming flooding into the present. So we're, we're in this C-suite, but we were in another one before and somebody just said something that reminded me of this issue that I had and it comes.

Sarah Collins (34:19.795)
you

Pamela Nelson (34:28.814)
flooding forward and you know the team will not know what hit them if you don't know how to be mature with what you're feeling and you have to have you know, this is where we practice the pause a really great key tool for those with empathy is that I need to pause to say okay, is this what's happening in the present or is this my own thing that I get to go talk to my own counselor about right? Yeah, yeah

Sarah Collins (34:54.843)
Right. Yes, it makes me think about I love what you were saying. And when you were saying this, I was thinking about sometimes with a one on one client, all when they're having to make a decision or something's happening, I'll check in with their head, their heart and the gut. You know, what does your head say? What's your heart say? And what's your gut say? It almost makes me think if you're in the C suite, you're in this big leadership position.

Bill Dippel (34:55.154)
Right. Right.

Pamela Nelson (35:10.295)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (35:19.301)
you might not feel as connected to one or two of those areas, right? Like if you're a real strategic thinker and a real executor, you might know what your head is saying and maybe even your gut a little bit, but your heart might feel like, it's harder. And I'm thinking like, this is a great place to pull in dynamic partnership and to have, who can you go to either on your C-suite or in your realm who knows the situation that you can say, like, can you be my heartbeat on this?

Pamela Nelson (35:27.822)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (35:36.654)
Absolutely.

Pamela Nelson (35:46.957)
Hmm.

Sarah Collins (35:47.336)
Like I know the strategic side. I know, you know, what needs to get done. I'm so locked in here, but I don't have maybe those relationship building themes. I don't have that high empathy. Could you be the person that I can come to to say, give me the heart on this. What is this going to do to the people? What are the people thinking? What are they feeling? You know, so I have the information because empathy is data about people.

Pamela Nelson (36:15.81)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Sarah Collins (36:17.021)
So if you are someone who is not a blue relationship building person, do not dismiss empathy because it is data about people. And I don't know if you know this or not, but the whole world and everything we do is made up of people. So your bottom line and all your money and everything is based on people. So you need the pulse on the people. And if you don't naturally have it, find someone who can partner with you to bring you that heart information.

Pamela Nelson (36:41.016)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (36:45.24)
Mm-hmm. So good. And, you know, as you were talking about, we have these people, sometimes people can get messy. And, you know, sometimes in that C-suite, it can get a little tense and there can be some debate and some dialogue. Those with high empathy, this is where it can get a little bit of a over attuning to the loudest or the most emotional voice. Or...

Sarah Collins (36:54.47)
Mmm.

Pamela Nelson (37:13.536)
If they have harmony, is often the case, empathy and harmony often times show up in the top 10 together. There could be a fear of that conflict, a fear of just wanting to keep the peace. And there's such a difference between being a peacekeeper and a peacemaker, right? Because a peacemaker goes after the hard. Like let's name the hard. We can't heal what we won't name.

Sarah Collins (37:32.403)
you

Pamela Nelson (37:41.538)
We can't tame what we won't name is one of the counseling things that we say quite often. And so it's also important then in conflict is that what empathy does is create safe spaces for honest dialogue in all voices. That's when it shows up mature. Like I know that because this person is here, because Bill is here, and he's so connected to this, that every one of us is going to be able to share our voice.

Sarah Collins (37:57.747)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (38:09.738)
and then all voices are heard, especially the quieter voices. And the quieter voices, again, have that heart trust with that mature person of empathy to bring their voice forward.

Sarah Collins (38:22.92)
And I love what you said because I think humans, want to be heard. So even if you have to make a hard decision that I am not going to agree with, that I don't like, that I'm going to be even upset or mad about, if you can acknowledge that you heard me and you you recognize my feelings and yet you still have to make this business decision, I will handle it better.

Pamela Nelson (38:36.621)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (38:47.614)
then if I feel like you are bulldozing everything I think, and say, and you are making the decision, irregardless of me, all of a sudden, I'm big mad, big mad. And that's when I think that messiness causes ripple effects in your business. Because you get somebody at the top who's big mad about someone else's big decision, and they start talking, and they start doing things, that trickles down to everyone, and then we can really get some toxicity in our culture.

Pamela Nelson (39:03.832)
Absolutely.

Sarah Collins (39:17.394)
And I think you can see that when you know these bigger organizations, these two departments are so siloed, right? Their leaders don't like each other. They don't work together. What is marketing doing? I don't know. What's the product team doing? I don't know. We're not even communicating. Why are they doing it this way? And everybody is over here mad that we're not working together. You know, it's because we're not hearing each other.

Pamela Nelson (39:24.654)
Yes, right.

Pamela Nelson (39:33.55)
Mm.

Pamela Nelson (39:41.12)
Exactly.

Bill Dippel (39:42.147)
Well, and Pamela, you brought up name it and tame it. And I think that's exactly right with the silos that I think so many of us work within companies and organizations. Well, I don't I'm glad we're doing this for everyone because I don't understand that group. I don't know anything about them. Well, what don't we understand? I love I'm stealing name it and tame it. I've never used it, but we can't we can't tame it unless we name it. So let's name what is the what is the what is it you think they're doing or not doing? And let's talk about.

Pamela Nelson (39:57.23)
Right. Yeah.

it's so good. Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (40:08.994)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (40:11.97)
And let's start understanding how to break this silo down. Because if you guys really want to move forward and fast, you've got to get together to do that. I bringing those two together, it's just really, really powerful. Sarah, great job on silos because we all see it so frequently. Right. I mean, I it's and the the empathy side of it, I've seen it on both sides. I've seen it fight the silos because I feel the frustration.

Pamela Nelson (40:21.166)
Mm.

Pamela Nelson (40:28.524)
Yeah. Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (40:38.51)
and I'll

Bill Dippel (40:40.463)
from everybody in a siloed compartment of an organization. And I've seen the other side of it. I refuse to rock the boat. I am not going to help break this silo apart. I I don't want I want everyone to make sure they're just feeling good. Hey, if we're in silos, that's the minimum amount of rocking we're going to stay there. And I think that leads right back to the core of today's question. How do we get C-suiters, particularly the, you know, the very top of that chain to

Pamela Nelson (40:48.621)
Yes.

Pamela Nelson (40:57.838)
and

Bill Dippel (41:10.069)
know when they're in one of those modes, one or the other. How can we as coaches effectively let them know that, you might need to rock the boat a little more. And I think name it and tame it works really, well to talk about that.

Pamela Nelson (41:27.264)
It really does. And there's another, it's, seems simple, but it's not simplistic. A question that you can ask is, is what is your fear here? You know, so that's part of that naming, you know, what is, what is the fear about this other team or, you know, a bottom line, like let's name what we're afraid of, what our team is afraid of, what, what it feels really difficult to say.

Bill Dippel (41:38.874)
Right.

Pamela Nelson (41:55.35)
And this is again where that Deanna Troy character creates that psychological safety to recognize that on the bridge, in the boardroom, in the C-suite, that there will be room for voices to be heard so that there aren't 40 conversations after the board meeting, right? That we actually can have a place of settling. And when we bring those things forward and we're saying it like, okay, clearly,

that we're passionate about some of these things, but what is this fear kind of exposing in the what ifs? And when we can bring that forward and bring truth to it, bring our strategic thinkers to it, bring our doers to it, bring our influencing, our energy to it, and our relationship building themes to it, wow, that's just really powerful.

Sarah Collins (42:50.738)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (42:51.306)
And not once we've talked about that particular realm of Star Trek. We didn't bring data up once. I'm just surprised by this. Sarah's like data. I'm sorry. It's but

Pamela Nelson (42:57.838)
Yeah.

What?

Sarah Collins (43:02.067)
Well, I actually have some data for you.

Bill Dippel (43:06.186)
And that's where that's exactly where I was going nicely done, Sarah. So I'm looking for the data not from data. So Sarah hit us what you got.

Pamela Nelson (43:08.366)
So good.

Sarah Collins (43:10.717)
Thank you.

Well, I actually didn't do a LinkedIn poll with this because there's actually a lot of actual data out there. I know. So doing some research, 92 % of employees say that empathy is undervalued. Okay. Okay. 76 of employees say they would leave for an employer they perceive to have more empathy. So what this says to me is that people

Bill Dippel (43:18.434)
What?

Pamela Nelson (43:20.248)
There he is.

Pamela Nelson (43:29.496)
Wow. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (43:44.229)
are looking to work for empathetic leaders and they do not believe that in the US that employers are valuing empathy as much as they should. Thoughts?

Pamela Nelson (43:47.726)
Hmm.

Bill Dippel (43:56.708)
I love the response. But again, as an all blue, I think, well, everybody should work for a high empathy, high relator, high developer, right? I think when I see C-sweeters that I work with that have those traits and they're mature about them, man, they are the warmth in the day. Come on, come to work. Let's, right? Which not everybody resonates with. I know that. Not everybody wants to feel the warmth. Some people want to come in.

Pamela Nelson (43:59.918)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (44:18.926)
Come on.

Sarah Collins (44:20.18)
Hmm.

Pamela Nelson (44:23.502)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (44:26.528)
Nose to the grindstone. I don't need to know the weekend. Let's let's move. But I I think your data and your research on it really highlights what I think is kind of missing from the corporate world a little bit. If everyone's you know, go go just get it. I've heard from a couple of clients recently they get paid to do their job. Just go do it. Why are

Pamela Nelson (44:41.813)
and

Pamela Nelson (44:53.663)
and

Bill Dippel (44:53.866)
Why is any of this necessary and the why is any of this necessary is the minute you start seeing them as people rather than a job, cashing a paycheck, you're going to get an alignment about what your mission is and that you you want ROI. I can help you see ROI. I can show you data on how that works. But in reality, just think of the response. Now your people are working harder for you and they like coming to work.

Pamela Nelson (45:03.928)
lot. Yeah.

Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (45:12.878)
Exactly.

Bill Dippel (45:21.741)
They're going to stick around. They're going to invite other people to come in and you're going to get the cream of the crop when you start doing that. I, sir, I absolutely echo your your data and research on on those numbers because the ones I see doing it maturely are are just rocking it. They are doing really, really well.

Pamela Nelson (45:39.672)
Yeah, and if I can piggyback some more data there, one of our Gallup reports that we had actually that came out last year about what employees really are looking for from their leaders in the workplace. So below everything by a two to one or even greater margin, hope was at the top of that report there, right? And so let's talk about like just the even the science and being able to bring hope forward.

Bill Dippel (45:42.208)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (45:58.068)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (46:07.854)
Hope is something that someone could describe as a feeling. You know, it is people that we trust that can hear us. So I love like an acronym that we put together for Hope was that you're hearing me, you're owning where things may be or even what you've done as a leader to break trust, but you're bringing forth transparency. You're wanting to have those conversations.

Sarah Collins (46:12.434)
Right?

Pamela Nelson (46:34.658)
that you bring play into the workplace. You know, like this is going to be a place of fun. And then we execute on that. And then right below that is the trust factor, which is so much compounded by hope. So just that data by Gallup, who, you know, we of course want to get some great statistics from. And then the other is just also on that ROI and longevity bill is the information out there about EQ over IQ.

Sarah Collins (46:37.3)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (46:51.944)
Right.

Pamela Nelson (47:00.546)
that emotional intelligence and people, the longevity of staying in a company with leaders in the C-suite who have high EQ. Again, so important.

Bill Dippel (47:00.748)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (47:09.219)
Yeah, so important. And for our listeners, the some of the data that Pamela is is referencing is Gallup's four needs of followers and how often we point out hope and trust are so important there for people looking it up and doing the research. The other two for those are compassion, compassion and stability. And I think we can all agree stability means very little if I have no hope that you're going to get us there. And

Pamela Nelson (47:30.424)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (47:36.268)
Yeah. Wow.

Bill Dippel (47:39.27)
If I can't trust that whatever you tell me from a stability point of view is happening, it's not there. I need to see and understand what stability is. And then the other one we didn't touch on, but the compassion end of it. I got to know that you see me as a, know, not just hope that you're going to get us there and stay stable, but that compassion part has to be there. And again, so well done, Pamela, bringing it back around to the things that people absolutely do need.

Pamela Nelson (47:46.988)
Okay.

Sarah Collins (47:47.646)
Mm-hmm.

Pamela Nelson (47:59.95)
and

Bill Dippel (48:06.796)
From a if I'm going to follow you these are the things I need to step into so yeah, really really good Well in that Sarah, I'm sorry. I cut you off. Did you have something here? so in that we're you know We're gonna come into another part of our show. That's pretty regular panel We're gonna throw you a little curveball just a small one. Although so we're about to find out we've talked a lot about empathy and C-suite and some of the themes that we feel really really resonate great in the C-suite and

Pamela Nelson (48:10.178)
Yeah, thank you.

Sarah Collins (48:11.828)
Thank

Sarah Collins (48:15.687)
Nope, go for it.

Pamela Nelson (48:23.79)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (48:36.234)
I think we can all say all of them do as long as you maturely use them or get some coaching and help. But let's talk about sometimes even as coaches, we do really well with our themes and we do really bad. So for you, when are you having a firework moment? When are your what theme is it you're using when you are all showing, exploding, doing great, really being everything to everyone?

Pamela Nelson (48:39.714)
Right.

Pamela Nelson (49:01.674)
Okay, so I want to ask a clarifying question. Can I do that? Okay, so a good firework moment or one that hijacks?

Bill Dippel (49:04.715)
Sure. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (49:05.652)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (49:09.023)
Yes, don't worry. We're going to the bad in a second. yeah, we're just we're just asking the good. So yeah, firework. It's great. It's illuminating. It's everyone sees it. It's it's a yeah, when that's working for you when everything's working, what theme is it play or combination?

Pamela Nelson (49:25.014)
Yeah, I would say a combination of my strategic and individualization. A firework moment because I do, see the individuals and I strategically know how to place them. I know what to say to each one of them to meet their motivators and their drivers. I know how to invite others into seeing who they are around the table. I know how to pivot when someone doesn't show up like you want them to show up.

Sarah Collins (49:43.54)
Hmm.

Pamela Nelson (49:54.742)
I know how to shift and kind of get to the desired outcome. My strategic has me looking at a project from the end, from the beginning, and I know in a minute how to get there. so when I'm on, you everything's firing, that's what's happening.

Sarah Collins (50:06.772)
Bye.

Sarah Collins (50:11.912)
Wow, I'm so envious. That sounds incredible. So cool.

Pamela Nelson (50:13.932)
Raaah.

Bill Dippel (50:15.937)
And I love she had she asked a clarifying question and then rocked it right. Individualization and strategy. I was like, I don't know how those go. Oh, that is how those go. Oh, and as individualization number one for me, I love that you pulled that out. So very nicely done. Yeah. So let's let's go to the other side of that coin. Let's flip it over. Dumpster fire. When you're having that moment and you're like, man, nothing.

Pamela Nelson (50:19.822)
I'm of here.

Pamela Nelson (50:24.333)
Yeah

Pamela Nelson (50:28.568)
wow. Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (50:36.376)
Hmm.

Bill Dippel (50:43.922)
everything's heavy, I didn't hit it right. When you might have that briefest of seconds where you think I made a mistake or am I a mistake? If that ever happens to you, what themes do you think are at play? Which ones get in your way the most?

Pamela Nelson (50:46.158)
and

Pamela Nelson (50:52.412)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (51:02.008)
Whew. You know, I would have to say my relator gets in the way the most because I feel like my relator is probably hardest on my close group of trusted friends. And so if I feel like I've broke trust with myself, that's where the relator can beat me up a little bit. This is where I, you know, I have to do my own self-work here. So I'm a, I love acronyms, shame.

The shame script there, kind of what I was talking about with little kids earlier, we all have it. And what it boils down to is self-hatred at my expense. Self-hatred at my expense. And my relator can beat me up a little bit. And so I have to come back to my core values and belief. So my belief will come and put its arms around my relator and remind me.

of who I am and that I get to practice again tomorrow. Yeah, we're all practicing. Practice makes progress. So I'm not living in perfection. And yeah, that's how that works. You can see that when you make them into inside out characters, right? My little belief emoji person is coming over and hugging the relator.

Sarah Collins (52:17.172)
That's right.

Sarah Collins (52:22.848)
I love the visualization. I hope chat GPT comes through for us on this visual.

Bill Dippel (52:23.952)
so good.

Pamela Nelson (52:25.614)
What?

Right.

Bill Dippel (52:29.351)
I know, right? That's and hearing you say it with your tone of voice about those warm arms to holding relator. I feel warmth when you say that just the just the way you say it and the way it resonates. It's like, that's so good. Because as also having a relator up there, I'm like, I I I need that. I need some warm arms to hold my relator every now and then because it gets fluffled. Right. It has that or it doesn't dive in deep and hard sometimes. And and yeah, I wow.

Pamela Nelson (52:34.894)
you're so sweet.

Pamela Nelson (52:49.994)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Bill Dippel (52:59.315)
Pamela, you are hitting on all cylinders today as far as the acronyms, the word drops, the book writing, the great name it and tame it components. I mean, come on. This is I mean, just keep coming, Pamela. We love it. So, yeah.

Pamela Nelson (53:03.582)
wow.

Pamela Nelson (53:13.326)
Come on. Let's go.

Sarah Collins (53:16.808)
You brought the fireworks to Strengths on Fire and us and our arsonists are all so grateful for you.

Pamela Nelson (53:18.35)
Woo!

Bill Dippel (53:19.463)
You did.

Pamela Nelson (53:23.213)
Thank you.

Bill Dippel (53:23.249)
Our firework episode today is fantastic. So thank you for that. Well, Pamela, we are cruising through our day. We have soaked up a ton of your time, but thank you so much for coming on the show today, bringing some relative stories and letting us know who you are and having so much to bring that I think we're going to take a lot away from. And I think our arsonists will too. So thank you for that.

Pamela Nelson (53:27.436)
Yeah.

Pamela Nelson (53:33.55)
Hmm.

Pamela Nelson (53:41.09)
and

Pamela Nelson (53:47.79)
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. And by the way, this is an amazing podcast. I love the fun. I love the fire. I love the conversation. It is an honor to be here.

Bill Dippel (53:56.991)
Stop, stop, stop, stop. Yeah, let's go on.

Sarah Collins (53:59.284)
Okay, we love you even more now. Thank you. I know. She knows she set that bar high. Thank you. Thank you.

Bill Dippel (54:04.099)
Coming from a fellow podcaster too. I love it. So She's well, she is rocking it all the way well Pamela and and thank you for pointing out that we love what we do and we think it means a lot for a lot of people and I think when you're genuine about that just like empathy in the C suite and you are genuine about it and use it maturely I think you put out a great product and I I'm pretty positive. Hopefully our arsonist will agree that's happening. So

Pamela Nelson (54:07.049)
yeah.

Sarah Collins (54:13.62)
Cheers.

Bill Dippel (54:33.215)
Well with that Pamela, we're gonna we're gonna cut you loose for the day We're gonna start editing because I want to get this one out as soon as but although you've got some time But it's it this will be a fun one to put together. So thank you for that. Thank you for coming Thank you to our arsonists and the people that listen to us we love having you jumping in and sharing part of your day and With that we will talk soon

Pamela Nelson (54:45.719)
Yes.

Pamela Nelson (54:56.856)
Bye.