Strengths On Fire

Bill Dippel (00:01.358)
And welcome to a pivot day.

Sarah Collins (00:05.836)
I just can't help giggling right now. I feel giddy. I feel like a little drunk, honestly.

Bill Dippel (00:09.046)
Are you? Are you? Are you beside yourself right now? Today's podcast definitely going to be a change for us. This is going to be good, right? So

Sarah Collins (00:17.2)
Yes. my gosh, it's so exciting. We just have to break into it right away. We were on our pre-show with our guest and as we were talking about things, we decided in the moment to change the entire topic and the great debate of this episode, literally two minutes ago. And there's something about that that just makes me seriously, I feel like a little drunk and a little tipsy about it. I'm just excited.

Bill Dippel (00:31.362)
love it. I love it. We hit.

Bill Dippel (00:40.684)
We joked when you get three activators on a podcast, what's going to happen? And we joked with our guests. I know we joked with our guests. Hey, we're we're thinking of this as a debate question down the road. And we all went, well, what's wrong with that debate question right now? Let's let's get let's get that rolling. So it's a great debate question. It's a great guest today. And it's a good question for you to kick us off today, Sarah. So you're ready? I got a question for you. All right.

Sarah Collins (00:56.804)
Let's do it today.

Sarah Collins (01:08.344)
Okay, I thought you were gonna ask me the question. I was like, well, this is weird.

Bill Dippel (01:10.678)
No, no, I'll ask you a different one. So son of a

Bill Dippel (01:19.896)
he must have hit something or...

Sarah Collins (01:27.44)
We can save it, we can save it, yes we can.

Bill Dippel (01:30.091)
What did you do?

Melissa Ortiz (01:32.1)
It said it stopped recording.

Bill Dippel (01:35.037)
you didn't touch anything because it did it. You went away. Yeah, you

Melissa Ortiz (01:35.901)
I didn't touch anything.

Sarah Collins (01:37.56)
It did, you bounced out.

Melissa Ortiz (01:39.086)
It said stop recording, do you want to refresh? Should I say no next time?

Bill Dippel (01:44.363)
No, I don't. I because you you went away on us. So but it's OK. We can we'll keep going. It's totally OK. So don't worry. This is all editable for me. So no, no, I know if you didn't touch it. I don't know why it I don't know why it bounced you real quick. You are a little pixelated. So I'm guessing you're on Wi-Fi.

Melissa Ortiz (01:48.049)
Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (01:53.595)
Hands off, I'll keep my hands where you can see them.

Melissa Ortiz (02:03.165)
I don't have a wired connection. I am pretty close to the router.

Bill Dippel (02:05.655)
That's okay. That's all right. It's just it might've. It's okay. It might've got overwhelming. That's all right. So we'll jump back in. You ready? So I'm about to ask Sarah the question. So here we go. You ready, Sarah? Here it is. Here is your question for today. Say your strengths are a gang. Which one's the mastermind and which one's there for comic relief?

Sarah Collins (02:16.538)
I'm ready.

Sarah Collins (02:28.528)
Oh man, so interesting when you say the word gang, I have such a negative connotation. feel like, my strings wouldn't be so mean in a violent gang. So it's hard to think of them that way. Okay. Who would be the mastermind? Probably woo. Cause it's hard to put it in a box and not let it run out in front. like, like we would be like a, we would like, be like a sparkly gang. We would like everybody come and watch us. We're going to do a dance and sing. Like, I don't know.

Bill Dippel (02:43.052)
Sure.

Melissa Ortiz (02:56.059)
Be a virtual woo girl.

Sarah Collins (02:58.016)
Yeah, the woo, the woo girl would be like, bring everybody in. Everybody's our friend. So that would be the mastermind of just trying to get everything going. And then what was the other one?

Bill Dippel (03:07.646)
And who is the comic relief?

Sarah Collins (03:11.248)
Probably positivity communication. Like I think I said this on another episode when I'm uncomfortable, I am just like so full of jokes. Like I'm a riot at a funeral. I just get sweaty and I just, I'm word vomiting all these things like, and like get finger guns and telling dad jokes.

So that would be my comic relief would be like the positivity communication just saying all of the things. What about you?

Bill Dippel (03:42.64)
Nice, nice. That's a good, it's, you know what? That's a good dichotomy of how those might, might hit for you, right? My, so the ringleader, the mastermind for mine would definitely be developer, right? We're getting together, we're pushing together, we're trying to figure out how we're all getting to where we're going and, and how we can be better with each other. And, if, if we're, if we're one of Sarah's gangs, like the gang and Sarah's mind, then

the developers trying to figure out how to rob right

Sarah Collins (04:11.706)
Like you and I think have different ideas of, yeah, I think you and I have different ideas of what a gang is, but okay.

Bill Dippel (04:17.12)
Well, no, I'm going with the way you thought negative. I didn't run negative gang. That was you. I was more like just gang of people. But sure. Sure, why not? That's a gang.

Sarah Collins (04:20.334)
You're developing your gang to be better.

Sarah Collins (04:27.532)
Like a group of friends? yeah, that I was like, we are criminals. I was just...

Bill Dippel (04:32.876)
So, know, but developers trying to figure out who do I how do I make people better to go rob people? Let's just let's go there and then That's good. See that's a good gang. I like that one. And then I think my comic relief I'm flipping it on yours. That's woo for me You know, I am the having fun. Let's talk about it. Let's laugh. Let's Let's talk and communicate and be more

Sarah Collins (04:42.217)
Yeah, I've got a lot of Ocean's Eleven scenarios in my head. Okay, okay.

Sarah Collins (04:53.018)
Mmm. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (05:01.099)
Together and and so I see that more as my comic relief when we're laughing and having fun. So yeah, yeah

Sarah Collins (05:07.076)
Yes, yes. I feel like I would answer this question differently if I had a better context of the type of gang we were talking about. I really got hung up on that word. And that could be true too. That could be true too.

Bill Dippel (05:14.881)
Hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (05:15.165)
Communication just wants to revise her story,

Bill Dippel (05:18.4)
She does. know, you know, part of the ideas of the questions are you have different perceptions around everything. So I, you know, go with it. You know, you want to revise. Go ahead and revise. I'm ready.

Sarah Collins (05:26.819)
Absolutely.

No, I don't. don't. I'm just thinking like, I could probably sit here for like a whole day and think, well, maybe this or maybe that, or maybe this in like exploration, but we don't have time for that. We have, we have a topic to get into with a guest who was willing to pivot immediately on the spot.

Melissa Ortiz (05:37.469)
gonna get down for that.

Bill Dippel (05:40.446)
We don't have time for that.

Melissa Ortiz (05:45.981)
Okay, but wait, I have an answer and I think you should know because it's very different than your answers to this question.

Bill Dippel (05:46.276)
Exactly. And...

Sarah Collins (05:50.616)
Okay, yes, tell us.

Bill Dippel (05:51.525)
well, so go.

Melissa Ortiz (05:52.827)
Okay, so Ringleader's obviously futuristic because everything's out on the horizon. I have a hard time being present where I am because I'm so wrapped up in what's coming. Always Ringleader. And then I think significance is the comic relief because man, that is a snarky little friend of mine that...

Sarah Collins (06:08.368)
Ooooo

Melissa Ortiz (06:11.453)
She's spicy. Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (06:12.139)
significance as the comic relief. Wow! Yeah. I need to know more.

Sarah Collins (06:17.796)
And I can't wait to welcome her to the party today is my thoughts. Welcome to the episode Significance. We would like your full array of snarkiness to join us today.

Bill Dippel (06:20.734)
Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (06:28.843)
Melissa Ortiz (06:29.08)
for my husband will tell you.

Bill Dippel (06:31.38)
Well, and this is this is a this is the debate question for snarkiness. I like it. So before we jump fully into it, we want to welcome today a very special guest, a friend of mine for quite some time. We've worked together on a couple of different things. Melissa Ortiz, do you want to tell us kind of what you do, where you're at and hit us roughly with your top 10?

Melissa Ortiz (06:54.117)
Okay, gosh, top 10, I don't memorize those. You'll have to help me. So where I'm at, what I'm doing, I started down this strengths path, if you want, if you have context, which I don't, by, was taking a class at Texas A in my master's in business program, which I didn't even take, I just audited, loved the strengths finder, had taken 50 other assessments at that time and went, my God, this is what I want to do. And I really learned more about Gallup and the right people, right seats and engagement. And I went all in for this path and have been doing that

the last 20 years I am obsessed with what makes people tick. The name of my company, my number one strength is Activator. My company is Activate Human Capital Group because the idea, like the words how about now are my favorite words in the entire language and

Sarah Collins (07:37.52)
Mmm.

Melissa Ortiz (07:39.801)
I love helping organizations make sure we scientifically are not setting people up for burnout, which I actually use a different tool called Predictive Index 4 that's fantastic and very fast. And also EEOC compliant for hiring. And then really measuring a lot of employee engagement and taking the pulse of morale and where are the hotspots we need to deal with that strengths becomes a beautiful intervention for. And so at one point my husband and I have had our strengths on our license plates. I have some ridiculously long list in my phone of

all my friends and family and colleagues strengths because after I get off a phone call I'm like, what was going on there? Oh yeah, yeah, I know why this was happening. So, my...

Sarah Collins (08:19.64)
Wow. So you're, you're really in it is what you're telling me.

Bill Dippel (08:19.785)
So good.

Melissa Ortiz (08:23.535)
I just breathe it. It makes the world make sense to me. And if I can understand the lens through which people are seeing and processing the world, one of our core values as a company is meet them where they are. And that is so important to me. I have activator, command, futuristic.

Sarah Collins (08:27.696)
Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (08:39.833)
Relator and significance are my top five and honestly those just rule the day and everything else is just color commentary So i've got individualization pretty high i've got woo heaven help me i've got focus on top of all that which You know, I get going on a path sometimes and I go a long time

Bill Dippel (08:55.015)
Yeah, and communication, communication and ideation and arranger. You've got, I mean, it's just a, it's a party going on in here.

Sarah Collins (08:58.064)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (09:01.403)
Yeah, it's interesting when I was at Gallup, one of the things that was really cool was they used to have power bars. I'm sure you've talked about this on this podcast before, but there were power bars associated with your strengths. And they were saying that at the time Jim Clifton took the assessment, all of his power bars were in like the 60th percentile above. It was just crazy intensity levels. I would love to have been able to see those for mine because I think they're pretty.

intense. I love the idea even of just doing that with participants say where do think it follows off? What's an always, a sometimes, and a never for you? And that gives them some idea of where their power bars might rank. Just having some self-awareness around what ones we use and what we've got to pull from in our deck.

Sarah Collins (09:33.84)
Mmm.

Sarah Collins (09:37.701)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (09:43.411)
Nice, very nice. And you mentioned you were at Gallup. So you were really all in. I mean, if you were employed at Gallup, that's how long were you at Gallup?

Sarah Collins (09:44.92)
Okay.

Melissa Ortiz (09:52.039)
So actually I had to beg my way in. When I applied, they said, we don't hire MBAs, y'all want too much money. And I said, I don't think you understand. This is the job that I want. It was basically a talent optimization consultant. And so I convinced them to interview me.

Sarah Collins (09:54.746)
Yeah

Sarah Collins (10:05.157)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (10:09.089)
I worked for them in San Francisco and then in Houston. And just, I probably would have stayed there for my entire career if I hadn't had a bad manager that got crosswise with the organization and that was stinky poo poo. But it was a great place to learn and grow. And I got, met so many wonderful people and learned a tremendous amount. So I'm very grateful for that experience.

Sarah Collins (10:30.289)
So you're telling me I have this unspoken and probably unvalidated in any way theory that Gallup hires people that have Achiever in their top 10. So you're telling me that is not true because you do not have Achiever in your top 10.

Melissa Ortiz (10:43.805)
Agreed. Yeah, but Activator and Command look a whole lot like Achiever. Go now. We should go right now. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (10:49.377)
You know what? That's a great point. Excellent.

Bill Dippel (10:53.001)
Fair. so also leading towards our debate question today, our pivoted debate question. I've been listening to your podcast off and on. You just did an episode on who not how, right? Which is another, I guess, concept theory around how to coach people and how to think about surrounding yourself with the right people versus doing all the work yourself and what, you know, that's the how and so who can we help to get into that and leading towards our debate.

question today, the big pivot that we have made is we want to talk CliftonStrengths. One and done worth a rerun or you know, do we redo this? Do we get asked so often as coaches in this climate, should I retake it? Things have changed, things have happened. But it sounds to me like on your podcast and in your coaching environment, you use a variety of tools. Was that fair?

Melissa Ortiz (11:45.179)
I do. Again, one of our core values is meet them where they are. If you have a tool that you love and it works, just because I love CliftonStrengths, it doesn't mean you should, I don't want people to derail it and make it something fun I did on Tuesday. Let's double down on the tools we have, we like, and we use, because these are all languages that we have to learn.

Sarah Collins (11:57.692)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (12:02.619)
And so investing that time and energy and doubling down to me for clients is more important than them using my favorite tool. And so that's something that's pretty consistent in my practice. Will I always steer you towards strengths and predictive index? Probably yes. Will I honor your desire to use the Enneagram or your astrological signs or the Berkman? There's some more wonderful and less validated tools out there. But also if we're just trying to get what makes people tick and use a language to see them more clearly,

Bill Dippel (12:21.703)
Hahaha.

Melissa Ortiz (12:32.563)
Bring it on.

Sarah Collins (12:34.659)
Yeah, so it's really supporting that overall development and like you said, meeting people where they're at and if they are all in and bought in and invested both mentally, emotionally and financially into something, then you're like, okay, yeah, I want to support you in doing that.

Bill Dippel (12:35.537)
Love it.

Melissa Ortiz (12:49.659)
Mostly because one of my other core values is I hate waste. I hate wasted time, money, energy, talent, enthusiasm. I just, why would we backtrack if we could keep moving forward? It says futuristic girl, activator, of course.

Sarah Collins (12:53.073)
Mmm.

Sarah Collins (13:02.417)
right? Somebody coming in with five influencing themes in their top ten.

Melissa Ortiz (13:07.357)
Yeah

Bill Dippel (13:08.156)
Yeah, a very impressive lineup, Melissa, very impressive. but I think one of the things that kicked off our pivot today, we were we were in the pre show talking about where we're jumping to. And we noted that you had taken your assessment in 2007 for listeners that don't know this, although most I think enthusiasts will. Your date of completion is at the top right corner of your of your report. And we noticed, seven. It has been a while for you. And

We're thinking about talking about retesting, especially if it's been quite some time. So 2007 for you, would you take it again? What do you think?

Melissa Ortiz (13:45.437)
feel like I should defer to your input first, because I'm going to get really excited about this topic. You can ask that a lot by clients. What is your natural response?

Bill Dippel (13:51.812)
I do love that you're in.

Bill Dippel (13:56.455)
Yeah, I tend to default a bit more closer to the Gallup referral, which is no, generally not. I got asked this by off of a proposal just a little while ago too. And my response is no, as long as a couple of conditions aren't met. Number one, did you take it in your native language or was there something along that line? Did you take it prior to being 20 or so and now it's some time has passed?

And then lastly, do you still have access to it? Did you move jobs? You can't get the email. You don't know what the password is. Right. I mean, do you have it? Can you get there? So other than those those problems that might have might arise with it, I always tell my clients no. And the reason the data bears out for us and I'm of the mindset that the reason Gallup is introducing this new tool of allowing you to link your old assessments within is so that they can

Melissa Ortiz (14:28.221)
Can you find it?

Bill Dippel (14:54.727)
continue to validate the data that shows it just doesn't change over time. Now I am always honest with my with the people that ask that too. I'm not telling you you don't change as a person. What I'm telling you is how you use those themes will change. And yes, there will be some things that move up and slide down a bit, but we know the percentages of what those are and how you use them may change. Sometimes you go to basements, sometimes you go to, you know, peak.

But overall, the underlying psychometric component will not change. That's my take on it, and it's the times I've seen it, taken it with others. That's how I feel about it. Go, go! Your thoughts?

Sarah Collins (15:39.473)
All right.

Melissa Ortiz (15:39.785)
So, Sarah, do you want to go?

Sarah Collins (15:42.791)
Yeah, I'll go next. then, yeah, then we'll save the best for last. So I usually tell people they do not need to retake it. My results are from 2011. And I say, you are who you are. But what I will say, because people and I'm in Lincoln, Nebraska, so I'm really close to the mothership. I have a lot of people who have taken the assessment before when I come into an organization. Right. So I get this a lot.

Bill Dippel (15:47.203)
Good.

Sarah Collins (16:11.312)
What I typically tell people is if it's been 10 years or more and you want to retest, you can. I say though, you do not have to, especially like what Bill was saying about access to the results. Once we get further out, right? It can be harder to remember where was I when I took that? And again, I'm in Nebraska. A lot of people have taken it at school or at work and they're like, I don't even know what my email was then. so there's some logistical things like that, but I will tell people.

We are testing your innate talents that you are born with and that is going to stay with you. Now, I truly believe the first time you take the assessment is the most accurate because you don't have the knowledge of what the strengths are, what you're looking for. And I think when you retest, especially if you retest sooner, especially like within the 10 year period,

you have survey bias. There's no way around it. You were thinking about, I bet this question is getting to this strength and I want it or not. So you are influencing it, whether you mean to or not. It's just human nature. So I think the first results are the most accurate. But I also tell people like, I'm not going to stop you, right? Like you do you whatever gets your buy in sort of like if you feel like you want to retest.

go and retest and then when your results shift a little bit, I am happy to coach you around why or why not that happens. And I do think the accuracy is really there. Most people, it's a reshuffling of the top 15. There might be one or two that bounce in and out. And then I have a conversation with them about why that may or may not have happened and what's going on to cause that. But for the most part, I'm always like, we're using the assessment as a guide.

to help us learn about ourselves, but we're not gonna let a piece of paper tell us who we are. So it's we tell the paper who we are. This is a self-assessment. You took it, you answered it. And so, yeah, right, right, based on what you think. So like, we're gonna honor you over like the piece of paper. So the worst thing I think is for people who are like, I had a ranger at number one and now it's 25 and my whole life is in a spiral and I don't know who I am. It's like, no, no, no, no.

Melissa Ortiz (18:08.325)
You interpret it.

Sarah Collins (18:27.942)
That's not what this is about. Okay.

Melissa Ortiz (18:30.087)
You're putting that much stock in the StrengthsFinder. We have a whole other discussion we need to have. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (18:34.322)
Right, right, right. But that exists, that exists out there. So.

Melissa Ortiz (18:38.397)
Yeah. It's interesting. think, Bill, I probably lean more towards your feelings in terms of pragmatism. If there's a reason, like there's what is, can't remember the percentages, like 0.05 % of people will get invalid results because they give too many neutrals. Well, sure. You were in a place where you felt so insecure that you didn't.

Bill Dippel (18:40.068)
Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (18:56.209)
feel like you could answer honestly, great reason to retake it. Native language, sure. You were pretty young, okay. I probably would push back a little on that one, because by the time those super highways in our brain are set, we just become more of who we already are. We become more sophisticated and mature. And hopefully we use the same super highways to do that. If you're trying to develop other super highways, you're laced in a lot of fuel, a lot of energy, and a lot of your time and other people's effort. And I like the access one is a very pragmatic one.

Sarah Collins (19:18.034)
Mmm.

Melissa Ortiz (19:25.873)
But I think what happens is, especially if you go through a strengths experience and you start to learn that, there are these super strengths around individualization and maximizer and everybody has strengths envy of strategic. We all then aspire, what you were saying, Sarah, is we have some survey bias. We aspire to be something else. So then we game the test just a little bit to be who we want to be. And I'll give you...

A very close to home example, my best friend of 20 years had restorative as her number one strength and she had harmony right behind it. Sorry, sorry. She had harmony as her number one strength. And I watched it throughout her life as she typically wouldn't address major issues in her life. And it ended up being that she was unable, couldn't actually deal with them, left, left her family, left her town, left everything behind.

because Harmony was so strong in telling her, don't rock the boat, don't rock the boat. And then pretty soon the boat had sunk and she wasn't able to deal with it. it wasn't maybe a year and a half into her taking the first assessment. She never really liked Harmony, didn't think she had it. So she retook the assessment. She's like, look at this, I have positivity number one. And positivity was this great excuse to sweep it all under the rug. And it absolutely crushed her family. This is way, you know, serious example, but.

Sarah Collins (20:25.458)
Mmm.

Melissa Ortiz (20:47.453)
this denial of who we are, I think is usually what's behind the desire to retake. It's a shade of ourselves we don't love. It's a shade of ourselves like, didn't know growing up I was anything but a bossy, impatient little girl. Activator in command, what else are you gonna see in a little girl? Especially a female. When I took the Strengths Finder for the first time, it was the first time ever that those strengths had been positioned to me as anything that had any value in the world. And if we don't...

Sarah Collins (21:04.454)
Right.

Melissa Ortiz (21:16.045)
understand at the core what those are and then set about to use them intentionally, the whole retest thing just seems meh to me. Why? It's a distraction.

Sarah Collins (21:28.946)
Now we have to ask the question, what about when people, I mean, is that you gave a great example of people sort of retesting and influencing the assessment based on what they want, whether they realize it or not. Is that how you, if you're working with a client and they've got one or two that went from low to high or high to low,

Is that how you explain that to them? Or what would you, if you're working with a client, how are you explaining some shifts when they do retest and they're curious about why?

Melissa Ortiz (22:05.309)
There are, think there's so many different scenarios, Sarah. I think one of them is I was in a place where I didn't feel safe taking this assessment the first time. And so there might've been some weirdness going on and maybe what's real has come to the top now. I often just default to them. What do you think? What's going on? And if they're in a place where they can be honest, that's super helpful. But the, they just, they don't change that much. Maybe it's...

Sarah Collins (22:15.634)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (22:35.481)
a time in their life, maybe there was a near death experience. That's probably the best situation I've seen that could really change someone's natural approach. But I think especially the more analytical folks among us are looking for the gotcha. My father-in-law, even though I've done this for almost 20 years, will not take the strengths fighter because the government might find out his strengths and use them against him or something like, very conspiracy theorist, but he doesn't.

Bill Dippel (23:01.365)
Yeah, I've got those people, yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (23:02.407)
want anyone to know. And so even if he did take it, he would be so close to the vest that the results would be a little less. That's why, again, I'll come back to the power bars, the utility of this, the intensity, that's one of the reasons I love predictive index, because it gives you the intensity read in addition to the directional read. And it gives us something to sink our teeth into. Like if you're a power bar of a five versus a one, command is going to show up very differently.

Sarah Collins (23:22.364)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (23:28.027)
It'll be much softer at a one, where five is a bull in a china shop. But you can't tell that by just looking at the rankings on a strikes report. So, it's, you know.

Sarah Collins (23:28.86)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (23:38.059)
Yeah, and and my understanding was Gallup removed the power bars and the percentages because it turned into a drinking game. Wait, you're only you're only you know, a five on or a three on who I'm a five on who so yeah, I win. Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (23:50.438)
I win.

It was competition that really did it. was, know, Sarah, have, you have competition number one and I have it number six and yours is only in the 70th percentile and mine is in the 90th percentile. win. And it got to be a huge distraction. So I get it. I just think it's a loss for people trying to really wrap their heads around it. And as we think about how to leverage our own talents and those of the people around us, it's, it's a bit of a blind spot because we don't know how, how intensely these things are showing up in people's hearts and minds.

Sarah Collins (23:52.722)
Mmm.

Sarah Collins (24:05.939)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (24:21.503)
their filters.

Sarah Collins (24:23.859)
So when you coach people, you primarily use top five or do you use the full 34 report and look at top 10?

Melissa Ortiz (24:29.661)
I would say 90 % were on top five. Because what people do is they look at the bottom and they say, yep, I don't have that. And then we move on. And the top 10 are like, they're accessible. But what I found is if, I mean, there were people I worked with at Gallup that couldn't remember their top five strengths. There's a lot of nuance to understanding the words.

Sarah Collins (24:32.924)
Okay.

Melissa Ortiz (24:47.245)
the interplay, the specificity of what it means, and at some point it's just too much to memorize. Now, do we go down that over time? Do we start with top five and then over time, maybe two years later, the managers get their top 10 report? Sure, but...

I'm way more interested in getting those, it's kind of like you put your most effort into your A players, because that's where the return comes from. If we put the most effort into our top strengths versus number eight, we're going to get a better return on investment. So I think it's a pragmatism thing. People just don't have so much bandwidth. While we might be obsessed with strengths, it's just one chunk in their entire space. So how do the two of you do that when you approach it? Do you start with 30, whittle your way down?

Sarah Collins (25:18.003)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (25:24.476)
Right.

Bill Dippel (25:27.776)
Yeah. Yeah. I think you and I have talked about this before because you had written me and said, you know what, maybe I need to consider 34 more frequently. Maybe I helped change your 5%. Maybe I up that a hair for you. Uh, I, I tend to be the opposite in those percentages. will do top fives. Uh, however, the times I do top fives, it's either a specific request or a financial decision.

Melissa Ortiz (25:37.095)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Bill Dippel (25:54.527)
because it is cheaper to just do the top five and some companies that's where they want to dip their toe in. And if they are willing to still do the work and do the top five, we'll absolutely provide that for them. But I go the other way. I'd say 95 % of the time we are full 34s. We're looking for the uniqueness in that report. We're looking for the specificity and the write ups that intermingle with each other. And, you know, I'm not afraid of letting people go to the bottom. See it.

But then as long as we're coaching them and letting them know, Hey, we're strengths coaches. We don't go down there. Right. That's I actually want to highlight it and say, Nope, we're not looking at the fact you do not have context. I don't it's as Sarah would say it's number 35 for me. and there's only 34 out there. So context for me, is so low. I don't go down there and go, well, I'm now off the hook for not having to think about the past. I will tell everybody you still have all of these. However,

Those are really hard to access and get to. And I want to actually develop that into them when I do the 34. So Sarah, how about you?

Sarah Collins (27:00.211)
Yes, I would say similar to Bill, primarily will not do top five. Again, if it's a certain situation and that's where we're starting or with younger people, sometimes I will because again, it's like the memorization of it all. And it's a lot of words to know primarily use full 34 report use.

top 10, I always describe it as your top 10 or in your tool belt that you have access to. Now you're gonna have some like your hammer, you're always going to, right? Like my communication, it's my hammer, I can use it every day. It's the core strength that I have that I know. And maybe my input is my screwdriver and I'm not using it as much, but I can if I need to. I like how Bill will sometimes describe 11 through 15 on the floor. If I need to pick those up, I have access to them.

Melissa Ortiz (27:46.065)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (27:47.57)
And then the middle of the list, wherever people determine that, that's the toolbox. I can get to it if I need to, harder to access, not as easy. And the bottom of the list is in the tool shed. It is locked. There are cobwebs. I do not want to be in there. If I absolutely had to get in there, I could, but it would take forever. I would be miserable the whole time. And I think maybe Bill or another guest said this and I have stolen it. Better off to borrow the tool shed strengths from a neighbor, which is our bridge to teamwork.

Melissa Ortiz (27:59.117)
Hahaha

Bill Dippel (28:13.663)
From a neighbor. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (28:16.691)
is how I usually run through the full 34 lists with people to get them like grasping at it.

Melissa Ortiz (28:24.027)
I like that.

Bill Dippel (28:26.259)
Yeah, I love the neighbor analogy. It leads to a pretty good on ramp for dynamic partnerships, how we can how we can lead into into that discussion. And I'm you know, I'm curious, I'm assuming the debate question today around one and done or worth a rerun doesn't change top five.

or full 34. I mean, I don't think it would in my mind, but I don't want to make that assumption. Thoughts?

Melissa Ortiz (28:56.507)
No, I don't think it matters. No, all about personal preference. And I do want to play a little bit devil's advocate. So let's go through some scenarios where it really does make sense. Bill, you've named a couple, like language is a really valuable one. My daughter says, we're the words matter family. If you use the wrong word in my family, you're going to get called on it because we want to make sure we're really holistically understanding. What other scenarios do you see? mean, one of them is...

Bill Dippel (28:59.027)
No, no.

Sarah Collins (29:15.068)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (29:21.915)
I don't know, what comes to mind when we think about a really good use case for retake?

Bill Dippel (29:26.878)
Well, I brought up the age component and I bring that up because Gallup itself will steer you towards strengths discovery for children or Explorer as you're younger. there is a and strengths Explorer not only is a different assessment altogether, but it also provides a different result. It's similar to the top five. You don't get to see your bottom. We don't want to crush you and say you can't do these things as children. Yeah, top. Sure. And then.

Sarah Collins (29:29.041)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (29:35.676)
Yep.

Melissa Ortiz (29:49.085)
think it just gets top three.

Sarah Collins (29:51.922)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (29:53.726)
It really gives you cheery write-ups around what those are and how you can use them and so Gallup makes that very that very Lined distinction around the age component and I I find value in that one. I think maybe You are still getting some of those super highways in your brain as you said somewhat developed when you're you approaching that Leaving the teenage years. I think that's a that's a probably a valid point

Sarah Collins (30:22.814)
I also think, and I think Gallup has data around this. have the only strategic thinking theme I have is input in my top 10, so I'm not a very good data person, but I try to memorize a few things. And I think I have heard them say that people in high school and college over index on Achiever because you are having to do a lot of list making, getting things done in those, when you're in those systems.

And so we will see sometimes when you take it in an academic setting like that, that maybe some things show up higher than they would for you once you're like in the working world. And, you know, depending on what your job is, you may or may not be someone who has to get a bunch of stuff done all the time. I'd be curious what you think about that, Melissa.

Melissa Ortiz (31:03.963)
I guess we are.

I think it's great. mean, so much of what we're leaning into, can show up in our assessments.

It's interesting though, so many, when I'm leading sessions, so many of the stories people tell are from their childhood. And I'm talking like, I'm nine years old, I've made my bed, I've made my bed every day since I turned nine and I've got responsibility and I think that, or discipline, I think that's where that really comes from. And so I think sometimes when we get the really rawness of those teenage years, they're emotional, they're intense. Sometimes we get a truer read than our guarded adult selves who are

Sarah Collins (31:20.884)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (31:43.303)
fearful of being found out or don't want to do it wrong. So I'd love to see some data on that because I think that would be really interesting. My daughter is 11 in sixth grade and she asked me two weeks ago, think, mom, could I take the strengths finder? And I was like, I've been waiting for this question for so long. So she sat down at her little laptop and she took the strengths explorer and then we printed the report and we highlighted it together and it was so fun. But

Bill Dippel (31:59.871)
hahahaha

Melissa Ortiz (32:10.077)
letting them drive and find. I've got a couple friends who have kids in high school and they're trying to think about these career paths and they don't even know what's out there, right? They don't know the jobs that exist. I'm like, for my kids, nine and 11, half the jobs they'll have don't even exist yet. So we have to teach them how to learn. How do they learn? What's their natural approach? Part of the reason I ended up at Cal Poly undergrad was because I'm a learn by doing girl. I didn't know that at the time, but that...

Sarah Collins (32:19.633)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (32:38.077)
tagline and I knew that I always was much more tactile in my ability to learn and so that really appealed to me as their as their motto and so I think we I don't want to under underestimate kids and their

self-knowledge and ability to get some really real results because it's just not going to be that different. I think I said this in the pre-call. My nine-year-old today, he's not going to be that much different when he's 90. He's a total goofball. He can connect with anyone. And he's just a love. And I've watched my little brother grow up with Wu. And that boy could talk to a brick wall when he was four years old. And to this day, he can connect with literally anyone. It's mind-boggling to me.

Bill Dippel (33:20.679)
Wow.

Sarah Collins (33:21.182)
Okay, so this brings up a topic that I want to get into. Have you read, are you familiar with The Strength Switch by Leah Walters or Waters? Do you know this book?

Melissa Ortiz (33:31.697)
I have read it a long time ago. It's not fresh for me though.

Sarah Collins (33:35.091)
Okay. So in this book, it's a, it's a parenting book here. I'm going to show it to you just on my screen, maybe the, the, the front of it, this book. Okay. So this is the new science of strengths based parenting. I, she doesn't use Clifton strengths, but it, I think she maybe worked at Gallup at one point, but she probably didn't get the IP rights for it. You know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The same, it's the same exact same philosophies that we're talking about.

Melissa Ortiz (33:40.795)
yeah, I've listened to that one on Audible.

Melissa Ortiz (33:53.659)
Okay, philosophically aligned though.

Sarah Collins (34:02.416)
In this book, one, it's a great book on parenting of like, focus on what your kids do right and don't harp on them about what they're doing wrong, which obviously is the basis of what we're doing with all of our clients. But she had, she talks about some cognitive science and I want to, I'm going to bring it up to you now. I just have to preface this again, not a strategic thinker. So everyone who's into data is going to just cringe and almost die the way I'm going to describe all of this data.

Melissa Ortiz (34:21.212)
Ha ha!

Melissa Ortiz (34:28.733)
We could go anyway.

Bill Dippel (34:29.564)
Perfect.

Sarah Collins (34:30.83)
She says that there are four types of Core strength, which is those innate strengths that you just know you're have. This is what I'm hearing you describe, like, right? Like your brother had the woo from the beginning. It's just no matter what was going to happen to him, he was going to be a wooer, right? And I always tell people like, when you read your list, there are going to be a few of these strengths that you're like, yes, this has always been me. It is me. There's nothing I can do to even get away from it. It just has me by a chokehold, this strength.

Those are the core strengths. She of course does not describe it like that at all, but that's my interpretation. She talks about a growth strength, which is something you have access to that with some work and attention or investment, can be a really, it can become a strong strength for you. A weakness, which is something you do not have access to, you are not good at no matter how much work and effort you put into it, you're just not going to be able to be good at it. But then she talks about a learned strength.

And she says that our brain does have the neurological capacity to create new highways when necessary. So she says, if we have to, if we are put in a situation where we have to do something over and over again, that we can for that time, adapt and build the capacity to do it if we need to. Okay, thoughts.

Melissa Ortiz (35:53.703)
This is a good one.

Bill Dippel (35:54.671)
Who well, mean I So this is the first I've heard of that philosophy and I think a bit of that is mirrored in when I point out to people, you know You when you see those in the bottom of your report, it doesn't mean you don't have you know Harmony for you Melissa because it's at the bottom of your report. It's 33 right or developer, right? Developer is the very bottom for you

Melissa Ortiz (36:17.885)
35. Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Dippel (36:22.967)
But it doesn't mean you don't possess them. You develop people, but you do it using Activator and Futuristic. you don't innately have what I have at my number two, which is that develop absolutely fuels you. For you, you actually see it as a influencing, let's push people, let them get here. I want to help develop you because of the influence it will bring in that relationship with us.

So I think Sarah, when you bring that up, I look at that and I think, yes, from a gal, if you're, if you're to translate that from a pure gallop side, it is I'm asking you to, develop and put time and investment into the strengths you do have to do the things that might be at the bottom of your list. And they had that, that was, that is how you will step in to do those things. I usually joke with people look.

Sarah Collins (37:10.677)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (37:16.215)
If math was one of the themes, you can't have math at the bottom and say, I don't need to know math. You do need to understand math. However, you can get there using, using strategic and, and executing themes to get through the math that you have to do. If I can get you to switch your brain, to understand how you can step into those rather than trying so hard to just do pure math, we can really coach you into it, into a better position to step into those troublesome areas.

Melissa, thoughts?

Melissa Ortiz (37:46.237)
Yeah, so I think where my brain went is very similar to yours, Bill, is I think about, if we think about the core, the growth and the weakness categories, I think about my always, my sometimes and my never strengths. Those align pretty well for me. And then when I think about the learned strengths, where my brain wants to go is, what resources do I have that I can put in force together, use those super highways where I already know I can be moving fast and do it my way?

Sarah Collins (37:58.375)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (38:13.307)
It probably won't be Bill's way. Like Bill's way to developer is this natural everybody gets to play and I'm going to support everybody. My way to developer is related. I'm going to lean in so hard to the people I care about. I'm going to challenge them. I'm going to find opportunities for them and I'm going to cheer them on. But it's not all the people all the time. It's my people. And I'm pushing. almost always in my life I've had one young woman. I'm just absolutely all in for cheerleading her success. And so.

Sarah Collins (38:15.594)
Right?

Sarah Collins (38:30.463)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (38:41.141)
Could I put an application for one of those? Sorry, that's a side note.

Melissa Ortiz (38:42.574)
What?

Bill Dippel (38:43.32)
Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (38:45.957)
I I went a very similar way as you, Bill. I'm not going to pick up something totally new and just miraculously get better at it. How about I start with something that's already in motion and I just, you know, sprinkle in this topic that I need to get better at and I use those superhighways to run that train rather than trying to start from scratch. And I think that's especially a challenge for people with restorative. They really struggle with even the strengths concept because they're like, yeah, yeah, but let's talk about what's at the bottom.

Sarah Collins (38:55.999)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (39:04.947)
Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (39:15.505)
And it's like, I know your brain wants to fix everything, but how about you fix the things that have the most potential to benefit your life and the lives of others?

Sarah Collins (39:15.752)
Right?

Sarah Collins (39:24.405)
Yeah, you know, I think it's really interesting. I agree with you. I think that it makes total sense to me. The the core strength, the growth strength, the weakness. For example, I have deliberative at thirty four. Yeah. And I've activated her in top five. Like you want me to take a long time to make a decision. I'll just not tell you for two weeks. But I knew what I was going to say in the first 10 minutes.

Bill Dippel (39:24.44)
Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (39:45.436)
Yeah

Sarah Collins (39:49.398)
Like you write like that's to me, that's one of those weaknesses. I'm not going to be able to practice it enough to get better. Now I have to sometimes make thoughtful decisions. Right. And so with all of my relationship building and influencing themes, I go and I talk to a bunch of people, my input, I want to, okay, if I have to make a thoughtful, exactly, exactly. Exactly. So I do the exact same thing when people want to pull from those weakness. What do we have at the top to get the same outcome that you think you want from those strengths?

Melissa Ortiz (40:03.409)
What am I missing? I go to everybody else's storage sheds and I find out, hey, let me see here that I'm missing.

Sarah Collins (40:18.741)
But here's what's interesting. So I really do kind of agree with this learned strength and I'm going to give you an example why. So I took the assessment for the first time in graduate school in 2011. The results that I got then are still the same ones I claim today. However, two years ago when somebody told me about this book and this philosophy, I retested and

mind you, when I went to grad school, I was 24, single, like woo girl, life of the party, right? No responsibilities really out there. Two years ago, I had my three kids, I had my business, I'm married, I have a house, like my life looks very, very different. And we had three kids in two years. So I also went through like the parenting gauntlet. When I retested two years ago, most of my results stayed the same and just shuffled like we typically see.

but I had one big change and it was adaptability. Adaptability went from like 25 to the top five. And when I think about that, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. And I had consistency the first time I took it at like 12. And I do find that I can get into a pattern. I can eat the same thing for breakfast every day. I like sort of a consistent rhythm to the days, even though I'm kind of sporadic.

Melissa Ortiz (41:22.109)
because I needed it too.

Sarah Collins (41:39.914)
But with this life situation of starting my own business, I used to work in academia, things were very structured. Now I have this like very chaotic business of my own and all these little kids who never follow schedules and do all these things, I have had to really become adaptable. And so what I believe is that right now in this season, my brain is like, yes, we are mastering this adaptability and we are getting really good at it because we have to. This is like survival mode.

Melissa Ortiz (42:06.193)
the coping mechanism.

Sarah Collins (42:08.253)
And I think once these kids are older and like my life calms down, I think if I were to retest that would drop back down. I do not think that that is a true strength of mine, but I think it is something that I have had to, you know, and I guess we could argue maybe I'm pulling from other strengths to make it happen, but I just feel like, yeah, I can see that showing up right now in this season of life because if I am not adaptable, I am dead.

Melissa Ortiz (42:32.667)
Yeah. So Sarah, really that makes a great argument for one of the great whys is when we're in a different season, a specialist season, when somebody who's not a parent tells me how busy they are, I usually laugh because they have no idea. That's probably really snarky. There's my significance. Sorry. But that's a great reason to think about how are we stretching in this period and what are we needing more of? What do we need to cope just to

Sarah Collins (42:56.2)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (42:58.621)
keep our heads above water and keep meeting the goals that we want to keep. And that's actually a really great reason to take the assessment if that's something you think you could glean some insights from that could make your life easier. So that brings us back to our topic again. And there's no right answer, wrong answer. But.

Bill Dippel (43:14.519)
Take it again. Yeah, take it again. let me ask you, let me throw this one out to the group today, the panel. This is a coaching question. This one doesn't come up often from clients, because I don't think they know that this particular change has happened, but we do from the coaching community. And it popped up about a year ago. And I am curious, because I have...

Sarah Collins (43:15.101)
I know, there we are.

Bill Dippel (43:42.359)
heard other coaches say, well, does that mean we should retest? And that is about a year ago, they went from 176 split paired options on the actual test and assessment to a full 200. So they changed what the assessment, they changed the actual testing itself. So I've had other coaches say, well, does that mean we should all retest? I mean, it's a, it seems like a fair question. I technically don't know how to answer it. I'm just throwing it out here saying,

Melissa Ortiz (43:55.356)
the assessment.

Bill Dippel (44:11.375)
I would think that that maybe refocuses some of what they know. I'm assuming that's what they're doing, but it's an assumption on my end. I'm not working for Gallup, so thoughts?

Melissa Ortiz (44:23.677)
Sarah, you take this one. What's your two cents? Miss Analytical?

Sarah Collins (44:25.43)
This is what I would say is like I have no idea. Like my answer is you literally just heard me try to describe data in terrible ways. Everyone with analytical out there is cringing and shut this episode off. Yeah, I have no idea. Like I also am curious. How does that impact it? Like I am also a blind trustor.

And even though, sometimes we have a complicated relationship with Gallup, we love them and we also struggle with them sometimes as they're, you know, the kind of the boss in the room of all the independent coaches out there. I really trust their data. I feel like that is their core business data. And every time I've interacted with anyone there who is on the analytical side, I'm like so impressed. Again, I have no capacity for that. So I'm just like, okay, if you say so, you sound like you really know what you're talking about.

Melissa Ortiz (45:14.525)
They're really smart.

Sarah Collins (45:18.634)
So if they say like, no, no, no, we're good girl. I'm going to be like, okay, unless somebody presents a different idea to which I might say, okay.

Melissa Ortiz (45:28.797)
I think my answer is who cares? Who cares? We put so much stock in the back end and not enough in what are you going to do with it? Of course, activator number one. I'm like, can we not get so wrapped? That's probably why I'm a little more agnostic on which assessment we use because I want you to do something productive. Make your life better, your teams, your customers, your families.

Sarah Collins (45:29.546)
Melissa?

Melissa Ortiz (45:52.209)
Go use whatever quivers, whatever arrows you have in your quiver and stop questioning the arrows. Go look at your results and think about how to make better experiences in the world. I just think people get really caught up in these semantics that just frankly don't matter to me because command wants to strip them away. And that's probably why I favor top five is strip away all the noise. What do you have to work with that's the best raw material that's going to get you powered to where you want to go?

gonna motivate you, that's gonna demotivate you. And so that probably is all colored by my command because less is more. Give me three bullets instead of 17.

Bill Dippel (46:27.478)
I love your command at work, right? We hosted a huge party here at the house and you and I talked, think three days before the party, just like three days and we were on the phone together chit chatting and you live what, two and a half hours from me? Two, two and a half hours. And I was like, you know, we've always wanted you to come up to Reno and have laugh and have a great time. But we've just never made it happen.

Melissa Ortiz (46:43.857)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (46:54.773)
I'm having this huge party, you know, for any reason you felt like you might be in Reno this week and two and a half days two days later, there you were, right? You rolled in, you and your husband parked and rolled into my party. And again, that command activator, you know, we, were like, you know what, let me check. Hold on. Five minutes later, you wrote me back and said, Yeah, we're there. We're coming to the party. I was like, what? Right?

That's indicative of stripping away everything, just doing the top five, right? I don't want all the fluff. This is exactly what we're going to do. And you know what? Reno sounds fun. We're going to get in our Porsche, drive over the hill, park in front of Bill's and hang out with a bunch of his friends for a night. And so in that way, I love the command activator. I think that's really, that is really good. And Sarah, I want to shadow back to your point really quickly. I kind of agree with you on this. think if Gallup had said,

Melissa Ortiz (47:28.999)
to do.

Bill Dippel (47:48.074)
You know, this radically changes it. Everybody needs to think about it. We would hear that, right? And we don't. I'm sure Gallup has released something about it where I haven't seen it. So my apologies to Gallup if you're looking at this and banging your head on the wall going, we told you guys don't, you know, it's not that. But I absolutely love your response. Who cares? Right? Who cares? You've taken it. We're helping you. We're making it better. We know innately what you do really well. If this changed one or two little components.

Sarah Collins (47:52.703)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (48:07.115)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (48:17.287)
It's fine if we're helping you and removing that's that's what we're here to do. So I love that component, Melissa. That's that's really a powerful way to say it.

Sarah Collins (48:25.706)
Yeah. And I just think that's in so many ways I coach in that way, Melissa of like you tell the paper who you are, not the paper telling you who you are. Like that's why I'm always like, I do not want to have a conversation about how activator is number one for you. And it's so strong, but relator at number four is just, you know, not like, do not start listing your numbers to me and trying to talk about, what, what is, you know, they're so minute at that point, like, let's just talk about how you use them.

How do they show up for you? What are we doing with it? And I think when I'm coaching people, I am thinking the same thing, like, how do we use it? Let's aim it. Let's use it to get over your challenges. Let's use it to conquer your goals. Let's use it. That's the difference. And that's why I like this assessment more than a lot of the other ones, because I actually think a lot of assessments get really into the theory of it all, and people will sit with them.

And that's great. Like I love self-exploration, but for my coaching business where I'm going into employer offices and trying to get people to move towards big goals, we need something we can leverage for action. And I just think that this tool allows for so much more action to come from it than just theorizing what we think we're like.

Melissa Ortiz (49:44.989)
I mean, if we did only three things with the StrengthsFinder or any of these tools in this class, and we were able to name it and claim it and aim it, right? But then we were able to also flip the script on the people that drive us kind of crazy. We will have done wonderful things, no matter what words we attach to them, what language we pick to use them. The semantics around the assessments, I just don't think matter. It's like I had a guy on my team, Kevin, we call them Chicken Little.

And when we figured out how analytical he was and how he could save us from ourselves, and we would make everything we presented to Kevin a draft, what do think about this? He's like, this is a terrible idea. And here's why. What do you think about this? Here's draft two. Well, I still don't really like this idea. Okay, what about this draft three? And go, that could work. If we got to that could work with Kevin and Kevin foresaw every terrible outcome. like, we're going to run with this. And if we can just find ways, whatever we call them.

to use that and however many times we retest. Like is it fun? Sure, retest, it could be fun. If we want a different fodder and like let's have an intellectual conversation about what changed, but when we start to learn like my friend Glenn is the one I plant ideas with, he has intellectual really high. I literally say, Glenn will you think about this for me? I'm literally busy moving all the time, I don't sit still. Glenn will come back to me two weeks later and be like, Mel I was thinking about the thing that you had me think about. I'm like great, what do you think?

Sarah Collins (51:09.337)
my gosh, I love it.

Bill Dippel (51:09.767)
So half the time you're like, and what was it I asked you to think about? Because I right, I'm not positive. But yeah, go on. that's a great idea. Yeah.

Melissa Ortiz (51:14.809)
going up. That was a great idea!" And he's just like this ideation, intellection. I was like, my god, I just outsourced you. I outsourced to my husband all my strategic plans. I'm like, I'm gonna do this thing by Tuesday. I'll probably not do it the way you want it done. But if you have a better idea, all means, you're all in. I'm still gonna get the thing done on Tuesday. I don't have time to wait for you.

Sarah Collins (51:36.053)
yes. And you can hear it in the application. And that's what I love, right? It's the how we're doing things. It's the how we do it.

Bill Dippel (51:37.087)
So good.

Bill Dippel (51:45.182)
Yeah. So, you know what, Melissa, I really want to ask you this part because I love the, I love that we're debating on this, right? Whether we should take it or good again. So let's ask you when your strengths, like thinking about your big strengths, when you, when are you having a firework moment? Let's talk about when one of your strengths has got you unfocused, you're on flow, you're moving, the fireworks are going off. What strength is it that you think is

most commonly at the forefront when that's happening for you.

Melissa Ortiz (52:18.181)
It's gotta be Activator. It's just, I love...

Bill Dippel (52:20.871)
Yeah. You mean like pivoting the podcast the last second before we jump on it? mean.

Melissa Ortiz (52:25.725)
I mean, like as Sarah was saying, like, I'm kind of giddy. It's like, if I get around people who are doers and they're not afraid to just take a chance and we're just gonna figure it out, there's nothing more engaging that will bring me more continuous energy. And then of course you pile on like, we're later. If there are people that are already my people, there's no end to the energy. Cause we're doing something meaningful, significance comes in, right? I'm doing it with people I like, but the...

physical going. If you make me sit still, I'm not that pleasant of a person. I just get really antsy pants and... So, I like moving around. I think that's probably why I love growing up on a farm. There was always so much physically to do and I still run my life that way. Makes for lot of emails really hard.

Sarah Collins (53:07.703)
All

Bill Dippel (53:13.457)
Yeah, that activator very evident. Yeah, again, I'll just drive over the hill with my husband. Don't worry about it. I'm an activate on it. I don't want to. Yeah, you know what? I don't I don't know. So all right. Well, we've asked you that end of it. Let's go to the other end of it. When is one of your strengths leading you into a dumpster fire? Which which one is it when that when when the dumpster catches on that you find? gosh darn it. I wish I hadn't stepped onto that.

Sarah Collins (53:14.38)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Ortiz (53:18.562)
We should do that.

Melissa Ortiz (53:40.986)
fire.

Melissa Ortiz (53:47.399)
I don't know so much for other people that I've created problems, but if something isn't right between me and one of my people, whoever that is, family, close friend, client, anybody that's close to me, if I've done something wrong, I cannot stop until I've fixed it. So fixed it with significance and relator. If the few relationships that I hold dear are broken, I cannot focus until I've fixed it. So it becomes this loop of...

angst, I guess, until I figure out how to make it right. I would say people around me would say that my command creates dumpster fires, but my rule is if there's a bomb in the room, let's blow it up or defuse it. I don't want it to sit ticking in the corner. So I don't agree that it's a dumpster fire. I just want to rip off the bandaid and pick the scab and make it, you know, whatever it's going to be, it's going to be. So that's probably what other people would tell you is my command gets in the way, but I disagree.

Bill Dippel (54:42.855)
For you, for you, there is no dumpster fire. What it is is what it is.

Melissa Ortiz (54:46.511)
It is. And like the sooner we know what that is, the sooner we can get to the business of dealing with it, accepting it, fixing it, whatever we can. But, you know, I was talking to somebody this morning about coming in to fix organizations as a COO and his like parachuting in strategy is just listening. I can't fix things until I really get my head around them. And if you're not listening and picking scabs, how are you ever going to do that?

Sarah Collins (54:48.62)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (54:54.869)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (55:14.773)
Right.

I just think to be around you has to be just electric with all these influencing themes, this activator command right at the top, that significance playing in there. And I mean, to me, your communication in Woo is also undeniable because you're very likeable and very good on the mic. So.

Melissa Ortiz (55:21.627)
It's a lot.

Melissa Ortiz (55:37.309)
Thank you. I love this topic.

Sarah Collins (55:38.239)
I'm excited that you were here today. I'm excited that we got to pivot the topic right at the top. People didn't see it, but I literally took my notes and ripped them. I was like, okay, we're just getting in there. So.

Bill Dippel (55:48.689)
She did. She did.

Melissa Ortiz (55:49.629)
But we abandoned such a good topic, so maybe someday we'll come back to it or you can give it to someone else who's wonderful, but.

Bill Dippel (55:55.747)
No, no, it's we're going to save it for you no matter what. yeah. And, I, having you, when you came over the Hill for the party, you bonded with so many people that we had a lot of people at that party and Melissa walked in and was just pretty much the bell of the ball, you know, came into the backyard a little after it started and everybody was like, well, who is that?

I think you came in, I was in the middle of making a big speech for everybody that was there and I said, and there's Melissa Ortiz and we want you to know, right? So I called her out. So suddenly she had all of this attention and people were coming by. You've made some friends in that group and I can guarantee you I'm actually going to an ACES game tonight with that 126 of those people. We got a big section in there.

I guarantee you five to ten of them are going to come up to me and go, well, I was really hoping Melissa would be here tonight. You know, maybe not even you. Where is Melissa? And I'm just saying it's that, you know, all of all that influencing, you know, you get your card. I have a ticket for you. I will make it happen. And I know a bunch of those people will as well. They would love to have you there. So.

Melissa Ortiz (56:50.523)
The invite man, gonna put us on the list.

Sarah Collins (56:54.647)
She'll make the drive right now. Get in her car.

Melissa Ortiz (57:00.317)
That's a good thing.

Melissa Ortiz (57:06.279)
Well, thank you for having me here. This has been such a fun experience and discussion. think it's a worthy one because there's not a wrong answer to our debate question today. It's just, what are you going to then pivot and do with it?

Sarah Collins (57:20.085)
Yeah, expertly said.

Bill Dippel (57:23.141)
Very nice. And I think probably the most mature answer to a dumpster fire question we've had in two seasons of doing the podcast. It doesn't matter. It's nothing's a dumpster fire. It is who I am. So, Melissa.

Melissa Ortiz (57:34.961)
Maybe the answer is I'm the dumpster fire.

Sarah Collins (57:37.397)
Never, never.

Bill Dippel (57:40.049)
I know if I asked your brother and or your husband, they would say, no, there is no dumpster fire hanging out with Melissa. So I think I think that is the truth. All right. Well, Melissa, again, thank you so much for coming today. Absolute joy having you on. Thank you so much for pivoting final seconds and actually putting in a podcast episode that we've all been thinking about doing and thinking, why aren't we doing this? Let's just do this. So you stepped right in and made that happen. And man.

Melissa Ortiz (57:44.188)
If

Bill Dippel (58:09.585)
It just shows so much in your themes and strength how you are willing to do that and then come with the heat, bring some really good information around it. So thank you. Thank you so much for coming on today. And with that, we're going to say thank you to all of our arsonists and our listeners, and we will talk soon.

Sarah Collins (58:26.807)
Bye!