Strengths On Fire

Sarah Collins (00:01.542)
Good morning, good morning, good morning. I know I can't, I got a song in my heart, you know.

Bill Dippel (00:04.311)
You are in a singing mood today. You know, I think it's because of the Taylor Swift releasing the ticket thing. You're feeling songs.

Sarah Collins (00:12.368)
Yeah, the release party. I'm full of songs. It's Friday. I have plans today and tomorrow. So like, I just am feeling good. I'm gonna get so much wooing out into the world that I really am riding high right now.

Bill Dippel (00:26.242)
You are going to get some wooing out. And like you say, who has to eat? I got to go do it.

Sarah Collins (00:30.342)
Who has to eat and she gonna be fed this weekend.

Bill Dippel (00:33.849)
That's right. You're running around with a bunch of lady friends, right? You're gonna have a ladies weekend?

Sarah Collins (00:38.204)
tonight, just tonight. And then tomorrow I'm going to go tailgate and go to the Nebraska-Michigan game. And I don't know if anyone out there is paying attention, but Nebraska is on a winning streak. Now have we only won two games, two teams that are not very good? Yes, but we dominated them. And I just need you to know that Nebraska football has been very bad for a very long time and that has not been the case. So we are rolling. Woop woop, undefeated, babe.

Bill Dippel (01:03.022)
So you're feeling you are feeling this right now. You're ready to do it. I same way with the 49ers for me. They had two wins. I don't know how we pulled either of them out. We have it's been so so for me as a 49er fan. My dad and I talked about it. I'm like, you're really going to claim these two wins. These were miracles at best. So.

Sarah Collins (01:20.69)
You know what? A miracle still win. you know, a W is a W. You got to take them. But I have a winning question for you today, If you had to give a Ted talk tomorrow and it could not be on strengths, what would you talk about?

Maggie (01:21.061)
Thank

Bill Dippel (01:27.308)
All right, I'm ready.

Hmm. Yes. I would, I would talk about the ability of having

Maggie (01:34.861)
Sarah Collins (01:48.56)
I stumped

Bill Dippel (01:50.027)
You did, because this is a good one. usually, I usually like to jump right into them. I, I've been to Antarctica, and the science and the ability of knowing what we're doing in Antarctica was really key and central to, you know, the, the ozone hole and some other things we were doing. But in doing that science, we're also damaging Antarctica. We are there in a large capacity with a lot of people.

Sarah Collins (01:57.318)
huh.

Sarah Collins (02:13.67)
home.

Maggie (02:13.671)
Mmm.

Bill Dippel (02:17.813)
So our job while we were there was to measure the air coming in Dan into McMurdo's base, the station and then the air leaving and how much pollution are we putting into the environment by living there, which is causing some other problems. So I would guess my TED talk might be around, you know, science for science sake or science for the environmental sake. And is it worth the and, know, can we mitigate?

the impact we're having from a science point of view and should we always be concerned by that? I might think that would probably be a pretty interesting.

Sarah Collins (02:56.518)
Yes, I think some people would be very interested in it. I would never listen to that talk. But you know what? I know that there are a lot of people out there different than me and that they would listen to that talk, you know? So kudos to you.

Bill Dippel (02:59.595)
some. Yeah, I know. I realize I've lost Sarah. Sarah's like, that's great.

Bill Dippel (03:10.239)
Yeah. Well, before I jumped into the soft sciences, right, I was in the hard sciences for a long time and I think some of them would be pretty phenomenal. So yeah, they would like it.

Sarah Collins (03:20.152)
Absolutely. Also, terrible name, soft and hard. Soft makes it seem like it's less important or harder to develop, but, or easier to develop, that is not the case. As we know, the soft skills and the soft sciences, very important, very important, and oftentimes the harder skills to develop.

Bill Dippel (03:26.669)
Hmm.

Bill Dippel (03:33.545)
Very important, yeah. And overlooked.

I would agree. What's your TED talk on if it's not about strengths? What are you talking about?

Sarah Collins (03:43.334)
Well, I do have a keynote in the works called the Good Energy Club. And that is all about how we go from burnout to brilliance and how that our energy is an inside job, but it is contagious when you bring it to the outside. So I think that would be a good one. And if I didn't do that, I would do something on recognition because I truly do believe that recognition is water, not champagne, and that people need it often.

Maggie (03:45.905)
Ooh.

Sarah Collins (04:12.709)
frequently for survival and that we are way too close to the chess and we don't share enough and that if more of us were more vocal about recognizing the people around us and the things that they bring to the table, to our families, to our lives, to our friendships, everyone would feel a little bit better and maybe the world wouldn't suck so much and people wouldn't be so mean to each other.

Bill Dippel (04:32.945)
Wow, water not champagne. I love the term. I just wrote it down. You need it. Something you need. It's not a treat. It's not the one that you get every now and then. It is the one.

Maggie (04:34.307)
Amen.

Sarah Collins (04:39.44)
That's right.

It's not a celebratory thing. You don't need recognition just when you go above and beyond and you did an amazing job. Like, girl, you've been showing up. Things have been hard and you've been showing up and you've been doing the work. I love that tenacity. Thank you. That's all it takes.

Bill Dippel (04:57.054)
Wow. And there it is.

Maggie (04:58.106)
You know that's the hardest thing to learn how to do though. You know that right, Sarah? What? So first of all, Bill, I wanted to say when you started talking about that, I'm like, that's kind of heavy. My number one positivity was like, Ooh, okay, maybe sit, sit straight and take this in. And I

Sarah Collins (05:03.259)
Tell me more.

Sarah Collins (05:11.835)
Hahaha!

Bill Dippel (05:12.573)
It is heavy. It is heavy.

Bill Dippel (05:19.115)
It is heavy. Maggie, I agree with you. It's a heavy subject. just I was thinking I was thinking what could be narrowed down for a TED talk, right? Because I like to talk. I like I like being on stage. I like talking to groups. I could really come up with a lot of good ones. Just thinking of one that might be relevant and narrow enough to hit a TED group that they might look at and go, that's really cool. But I agree with you. I it is heavy, particularly for what I do now.

Maggie (05:24.955)
I respect the fact that

Bill Dippel (05:47.805)
So yes, but go on. sorry. I you off the hardest part.

Maggie (05:48.839)
Well, it felt very strategic. It was strategic that you chose that. So good job. But Sarah, the recognition, it sounds so simple, but it's so funny when I work with people, they don't know how to recognize with more than good job.

Bill Dippel (05:53.83)
It was, yes. Which, yes.

Sarah Collins (06:03.41)
Hmm.

Right. Well, and when you do you then use CliftonStrengths? I know the TED talk is not supposed to be about CliftonStrengths, but I always tell people knowing people's strengths gives you language to recognize people easier because you can say, wow, yesterday in the meeting, your Includer really showed up the way that you invited Janice into the conversation. She's usually so quiet and you really got her talking and gave us her perspective. That Includer was, you know, really

really showing up, it gives us more to pull from when we want to recognize people that is based in that positivity of what they do.

Bill Dippel (06:46.995)
Nice. Well, and I would also argue that you're cheating on the answer. And the reason is, right? Question, believe number four has to do with recognition in the Gallup Q12. And I would dare you to have that Ted talk without bringing up Gallup or the Q12.

Sarah Collins (06:47.719)
Yes.

Sarah Collins (07:06.416)
Yes, yes, you're totally right. You're totally right. Which is why I would do the Good Energy Club. neither here, neither here.

Bill Dippel (07:09.631)
Yeah.

No, and I agree. It's but it would be tough. And I and I, I love the recognition side. I love that you would push it and bring it up because I had that discussion yesterday with some people. So, yeah, a very worthy topic.

Sarah Collins (07:24.442)
Yes. Yes, I think recognition can, I mean, honestly, if we're being honest, recognition changed my life and my career trajectory because somebody recognized my strengths in me. And when I first learned strengths and I did not think that they were worth anything besides like a good time and a best friend, it was someone in a position of power looking at me saying, what you bring makes a difference here.

Maggie (07:37.618)
you

Sarah Collins (07:52.189)
that changed my entire mindset around what I was capable of. And I believe that from that moment on, I reached for more because that person told me that I was worth something. So I think, my God, I'm like writing a keynote right now. See me later.

Bill Dippel (08:11.476)
She is.

Sarah Collins (08:12.801)
Anyways, let's introduce our guests. We have Maggie Malour here, who her and I share seven of our 10 strengths, which is probably why I love her so much. I'm delighted and thrilled to have Maggie with us today. So Maggie, tell our audience who you are, what you do, and drop those top 10 for us.

Maggie (08:33.026)
Okay, I really want to talk about recognition, but I'm not going to because it changed my life too. So my name, Sarah, you and I are friends and we've been friends for a while and this is a common error that even my corporate friends make. My name is Maggie Myler.

Sarah Collins (08:37.412)
You

Sarah Collins (08:47.961)
no, I messed up your name!

Bill Dippel (08:51.58)
Unbelievable.

Sarah Collins (08:54.258)
My God, I'm so embarrassed.

Bill Dippel (08:54.858)
Oh my God. Oh my God. Didn't didn't Maggie just try to adopt you 10 minutes ago and now you. All right.

Maggie (08:57.616)
Like the Mylar balloon, but it's spelled. I still want to adopt you. I still do. Well, that's the first thing when you get adopted is we teach you how to spell the last name. But the way it's spelled sounds like mailer, however people say it. But.

Sarah Collins (09:05.574)
I just need to learn our last name better, okay?

Maggie (09:20.686)
I, what am I supposed to do? Okay. I'm Maggie Myler with True Forward Coaching. am positivity. I have so much fun. Includer, Harmony, which is what we're going to talk about today. Communication, responsibility. I showed up 10 minutes early. Developer, connectedness, learner, activator. I'm sitting on my hands right now. And input. I'm learning so much from all of you.

Sarah Collins (09:28.978)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (09:48.994)
my gosh. And tell us a little bit about where you're located and your business.

Maggie (09:54.451)
So I am located in Wisconsin. We just moved back here a year and a half ago. I was in Southern Illinois for 12 years, but we are Wisconsinites. Go Pack Go. So when you guys were talking about football earlier, I'm like, well, let's just talk about the Packers record. Oh yeah.

Bill Dippel (10:06.762)
Mmm.

Bill Dippel (10:13.161)
Dreaded, dreaded Packers.

Sarah Collins (10:13.208)
yeah!

Sarah Collins (10:17.345)
yeah.

Maggie (10:18.706)
So, and I am an executive and leadership coach and of course a Gallup certified strengths coach.

Sarah Collins (10:26.067)
I love that. And I had the privilege of meeting Maggie in Atlanta when we were getting trained through ETAGRO for high performing team program, which was excellent. And we both facilitate to groups now. So I regularly get to see Maggie on a variety of calls, be it through ETAGRO or Midwest Strengths Coaching Group. So we have a lot of overlap in helping each other.

So I just know this positivity number one also like sees like me too. Hey girl, you're going to bring the energy today because today we are talking about can harmony handle hard conversations.

Maggie (10:57.04)
you

Maggie (11:05.372)
Ken Harmey.

Bill Dippel (11:05.777)
It can't. It just can't.

Sarah Collins (11:07.805)
And everyone here has harmony, no, we're not even going to have the conversation. It's too hard. Never mind. Episode over.

Maggie (11:16.406)
you

Bill Dippel (11:17.161)
Wow. You know, we've solved it. It's all right. We finally, I think we finally have a strong debate ending. No, we can't have a hard conversation. It's over. So

Sarah Collins (11:23.963)
There we go.

Maggie (11:26.17)
Nope, we're going to talk about recognition instead because that just makes us feel good.

Sarah Collins (11:29.241)
Yeah. It's so much easier.

Bill Dippel (11:31.11)
You know, those Packers, those Packers, man, doing really well, doing great. So the Niners, the Packers, Nebraska, it's all going to go great. No, Maggie, I I love that you're here and you have that ultra high harmony to do that. To be to pull the curtain back a little bit, starting our show on our pre show routine. You just told us that there was a last minute cancellation for you and you didn't.

You're not sending the email that says you still have to pay for this because that could be a hard conversation. Would that be fair?

Maggie (12:07.196)
That is a very fair statement to say, but I did send the email. Because can harmony have those hard conversations? Yes, it can because it learns to take a back seat to something else. And plus harmony, like my harmony, if we can talk about it, because when I took this...

Bill Dippel (12:11.624)
okay.

Bill Dippel (12:22.204)
Very nice, very nice.

Sarah Collins (12:23.154)
Ooh, say more.

Maggie (12:29.724)
Clifton Strengths Assessment back in 21 and I got my report. I looked at my top 10 and I saw Harmony is number three and I went, what?

And then I read the description and I said, no way. And then I realized when I was doing some interpersonal self-awareness, deep work of who I am, I realized I am wired for harmony, but yet I wasn't living in the balcony of it or.

Sarah Collins (12:43.794)
Hmmmm

Maggie (13:01.616)
the developed version of Harmony. I was living in the underdeveloped, or you could say the basement of Harmony. And so it took me some time and I started like leaning into it and realized that when I was leaning into it and doing, using it for my, my relationship themes, I, like the inside of me started feeling better and thriving.

Sarah Collins (13:30.158)
Yeah, tell me more about what it looked like when you were in the basement or the underdeveloped raw side of harmony. What, what, what, did that come out for you versus the more developed side?

Bill Dippel (13:30.887)
Hmm.

Maggie (13:44.019)
So I, it was in the basement, so I ignored it and I'm high in communication. And what happened is I need to talk. I need to connect. I'm also high in relator. It's not in my top 10, but I own it and I love connection with people and I want to communicate. And so if I could not get somebody to talk to me,

AKA my husband, I would create an argument because to me, arguing was better than not talking at all. And then what that did was it created this like, just this, ugh, inside of me. And that was my harmony. My harmony is like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And so.

Sarah Collins (14:19.622)
Sarah Collins (14:24.23)
Okay, I love this, keep going.

Bill Dippel (14:38.83)
Why are you doing this?

Maggie (14:40.594)
There was just like this conflict and then when I took the assessment and like, well, and then of course that was back in the day when I was less developed as a person and still developing as we all are, right? But have grown a lot more as a person and realize there's other ways to get people to communicate.

Sarah Collins (14:56.22)
Of course, everybody.

Sarah Collins (15:07.218)
Okay, so what I'm hearing go ahead, Bill.

Bill Dippel (15:08.72)
Well, and Maggie, you go ahead, sir. Well, I was going to bring up you mentioned the backseat, right? Maybe Harmony needs to take that backseat. And Sarah often comes up with she likes our car analogy that we our team distributes really frequently. So I really love the backseat analogy. Bring up sometimes we tell people it can't go to the backseat. It needs to actually be left at the truck stop and just leave it there.

Maggie (15:24.036)
Anyway.

Bill Dippel (15:36.602)
while we drive on and go on vacation and leave it behind for a little bit. Or it needs to be in the passenger seat only. It still needs to be there, but keep it close by because it's something that's really natural and reoccurring for you. So I really resonate with that backseat kind of component of where you're there. From a coaching point of view, I might look at that and say, well, you did send the email. You're responding to the idea that you're creating an argument with your husband. So...

The theme from a coaching point of view I look at I see that responsibility Right. So when we talk about front seat back seat and where they they might move together that empathy if it's or that harmony if it's sliding to the back and I see that responsibility stepping up That's where you spotted you're making those moments with your husband or I'm still sending the email and I know how I'm gonna do it exactly What's gonna happen?

Maggie (16:09.02)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (16:31.637)
I would feel that's responsibility from a coaching point of view. might bring that up. Would you agree with that? Would you think that's what's coming at play for you there?

Maggie (16:41.188)
for the reason I'm creating conflicted communication or the reason I'm

Bill Dippel (16:45.24)
No, noticing it. You're actually noticing the conflict or you're still sending the email to the client. And that's that harmony stepping back and responsibility stepping forward.

Maggie (16:52.259)
Yeah.

Maggie (16:57.554)
Yeah, I would agree with that. Responsibility. So I didn't want to send the email to my client because I didn't want her to feel bad. But you know, it's the right thing to do because if I was the other way around, I would tell her to because that's a rule, know, we follow the rules. That's responsibility.

Bill Dippel (17:06.127)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (17:18.076)
Mm-hmm.

Maggie (17:20.986)
Yeah, so my responsibility would still do the hard and the same thing. So it's also about connectedness. So Harmony does have hard conversations because my Harmony also has realized that if you don't do those difficult conversations, the relationship will suffer.

Sarah Collins (17:40.75)
Ooh, yeah. And you have five relationship building themes in your top 10. So you are a mega relationship builder powerhouse when it comes to your strengths.

Maggie (17:50.226)
It drives everything for me. So that's why.

Bill Dippel (17:51.993)
Yeah. And welcome, Maggie, welcome to the club. I have six, right? I love that we have those, that big tight blue group, right? I think that's, that's super good. And you're right. It does drive everything. Go on with that. How does that look for you?

Sarah Collins (17:52.028)
Mm-hmm.

Maggie (18:06.554)
Well, how it looked for me is I didn't like how I was maybe communicating with my husband, right? So that's hindering a relationship. So it didn't take me long to figure out that's not going to invest in a relationship. And so with Harmony, Harmony, as we all know, likes consensus.

Sarah Collins (18:12.581)
Hmm?

Sarah Collins (18:29.489)
Hmm?

Maggie (18:29.994)
So you can use that communication to communicate and find out like, can I connect with you? How can I, what would you be interested in talking about? What, you know, how can we build that relationship, turning it away from myself and turning it towards the other person?

Sarah Collins (18:50.32)
Yeah. And for our audience to give them some clarity, I typically describe Harmony as that peacemaker, someone who can see both sides of a story or a situation, and they want everyone to kind of get along. Right. And so they kind of are that. think, Bill, you've said before, it's like you're all in a boat rowing. They want everyone rowing at the same speed in the same direction. Like, let's all go together. I always like to add the caveat that I think people with high harmony

Maggie (19:05.51)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (19:19.314)
can have a complicated relationship with conflict. Because if you're kind of in that raw state, sometimes I see it being avoiding conflict. And so you can sort of become like the doormat, as people say, where people will walk all over you because you don't want to cause a disruption. So you avoid it. And in a mature state, it usually will go if if conflict is necessary, a high harmony person who's matured it will say,

Hey, in order to actually get through this conflict for the relationship, we have to go into it, right? We've got to go straight into it. And that's how we get to the other side. We can't avoid it when necessary. And so then I'll talk to people. How do we use your other strengths to help you figure out how you are going to address conflict? Now, I also love what you were saying, Maggie, because with your husband, your raw harmony was kind of making fights.

you know, and with conjunction with that communication, it was like not liking the silence, correct me if I'm wrong here. And so it was sort of over communicating to try to like force something and you felt the misalignment inside of your body, but maybe didn't know exactly where it was coming from for a while until you were like, I have to develop this harmony to a place to where I can flex that muscle more so it's more productive.

Maggie (20:18.684)
you

Sarah Collins (20:46.738)
and not just sort of backfired in my face. Did I misrepresent any of that for you?

Maggie (20:52.568)
No, you were spot on. And as you were explaining that, I was thinking about how we have developed that as a couple. He's high in analytical. And so what usually would spark a challenge for us is he would start asking me all these questions.

And I'm number one positivity and I have this really good idea. think we should sell everything and go travel the world. And I don't understand why we can't just take a loan to go do this stuff. And he's like, excuse me, pardon me. Let's calm down. And he's got all these questions that he wants to ask first. Well, now we're in agreement. When I come up with what I think is an awesome idea, I say, okay, I've got an idea.

I'm going to share it with you. But can you wait a little bit before you ask any questions and let's just enjoy the idea.

Sarah Collins (21:44.658)
The energy and the excitement of the idea don't just poop who my idea right away

Maggie (21:51.219)
And so now we've reached consensus. I've agreed that I'm going to listen to the questions and he's, he's agreed and he's great. He's like the most patient man on earth. And he's like, okay, I'll wait. And he waits. And then when we're ready, we can start talking about it.

Sarah Collins (21:55.41)
Mm.

Bill Dippel (22:09.965)
So good, yeah. I will tell you I am also married to a high analytical, high strategist. I know, right? How did we do this? How do we seek this out? And one of the things that my wife does, and she's going to listen to this and she's going to take her headphones off in the bathtub and be like, hey, you, you know, I'm sure of that. So one of the things she does that I find, I won't say annoying, but it definitely

Sarah Collins (22:16.853)
my god, me too you guys! Look at it! What are the chances?

Maggie (22:31.6)
Yeah

Bill Dippel (22:39.04)
has me, it gets me, right? It's like, I don't know. We'll talk about someone and we'll talk, you know, we'll be talking about our daughter or a friend of ours or something like that. And I just had a conversation with that person and I was like, yeah, you know, I caught up with so and so and this was great. This happened. Well, are they going on the trip to blah, blah, blah? I'm like, how would I know? I, you know, I mean, that was so not what I just, you know,

Sarah Collins (22:39.26)
You're full.

Bill Dippel (23:08.919)
Well, could they are they willing to go to a thing on this? I didn't know there was a thing on right for her. She is always strategizing and knowing that, hey, we can push, we can, you know, we can get to that point. And me, I'm just in the moment with the person. I'm just, hey, I just want to have that bond. I want to have that moment. And in my mind, inevitably, I think, well, then you should call them and ask them because you have.

Maggie (23:16.146)
Okay.

Bill Dippel (23:36.652)
better questions than I do by far, right? Yours and yours are all great. They're relevant. I just didn't think to ask them because that's I don't have that strategy. We're all married to analytical strategists. you? Maggie, if I'm hearing you right, that sounds like part of what you would you have experienced. Would you agree? And Sarah, I'm curious on your end.

Maggie (23:56.935)
my gosh, Bill, 100%. I say something and then I'm like, I don't know. I didn't think about that. That is, that's crazy.

Bill Dippel (24:06.338)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (24:09.06)
It reminds me however of an internet meme and I, it probably, you're probably right. This is probably a strengths thing, but it is funny to think of the difference between men and women because I, there's like a thing online where people are like, my husband went to dinner with his friends and his one friend said he's getting divorced. And I was like, when what happened? I asked him all these questions and he doesn't know. He's like, I don't know. I didn't ask. I just, he told me he was getting divorced. And then we watched the game and like women are like, what do you mean you didn't ask these questions?

Bill Dippel (24:38.493)
It's It's fair.

Sarah Collins (24:38.524)
So that makes me think of that. But yeah, I've had to learn over the years and I'm still honestly not very good at it. I have so much growth and development to do when it comes to trying to communicate with my husband. We share none in the top 10. My top strengths are his bottom strengths and vice versa. And so that analytical strategic mind, it's hard to get in there and know.

Bill Dippel (24:58.324)
Right. Right.

Sarah Collins (25:05.638)
You know, I try if I want to convince him of something, I try to bring the facts and the data because I know that will speak more to him than just the feelings and the emotions. But it's it really is hard. I have to try extremely hard and I only do it when it's something really important. Like I want to go on this trip. Here's how we can.

Bill Dippel (25:26.953)
Here's how it'll go right. Well, Renee for me, she has high input, high learner, high maximizer. So all of the questions you ask me are valid, right? They're all really good and they're well thought out. just, you know, now I feel guilty. I didn't think about them or think them out. Yeah, right. And, you know, now I now I have the next four questions I'm going to ask that when I talk to X the person. But by then there will be four other questions that I didn't ask. And she's like, well, did you, you know,

Sarah Collins (25:35.783)
Right.

Bill Dippel (25:56.009)
I wish she would write them down before, know, hey, if you ever talk to so and so, you know, find these things out.

Sarah Collins (25:58.663)
Right.

Sarah Collins (26:02.332)
She's like, I've got a note on our phone that I shared with you. It has everyone in our family and friends and I have questions. So if you go find them, go look at that notes app and ask the questions that I have written down. I wanna steer the conversation and I want you to think about the clients you work with who are in management or leadership roles. I'm curious, how do you see the clients with high harmony deal with this?

Bill Dippel (26:08.341)
Hahaha!

Maggie (26:22.162)
Thanks

Sarah Collins (26:29.74)
strength that is a superpower in finding common ground in leadership positions where, you know, performance and confluence and restructuring and layoffs and all these things are a part of it. How do we see that play out?

Bill Dippel (26:43.84)
I'll jump in really quickly on this one Maggie and then I'm really curious to hear your take on this because I think you do more on the corporate side than I do but I will tell you the high harmony people I have I love that you brought up my analogy earlier on rowing in the same direction I will point out to high harmony C-suite or owners of companies that as you're rowing in that direction and you're and you're all feeling I need to get there

Maggie (26:44.53)
Thank

Bill Dippel (27:12.841)
What will happen is inevitably if you aren't rowing in the same direction, if we're arguing about which island we're rowing to, then you will shut down. Right now. That's true. If that dish harmony rises to a certain level or like water on the boat, if it rises to a level, the beauty is as a harmony, if I put you in with a low level of dish harmony, you're going to get us all going. You're actually absolutely required in that sort of meeting to get us all moving.

Sarah Collins (27:19.634)
Mmm.

Bill Dippel (27:41.788)
And if you happen to be the owner or one of the C-suite and you're working with your team and you get to that level of disharmony where you cannot, right? I can't get us all rowing in the same direction. I'm feeling like I need to check out of this conversation. For me, I often coach them. That is the exact time to check out of that conversation. Let everybody in the room know that we're going to pause on this for a couple of minutes or maybe, right? We're going to readdress this in our next meeting. And, you tomorrow I need to

Maggie (27:55.506)
Thank

Bill Dippel (28:11.37)
get some data, some information, right? I need to fuel other parts of where you're at because if you rise to a shutdown level, you're not being ultra effective to the people in the room, particularly if success is what a C-suite or an owner is looking for. So that would be my take on it. you're getting, know, instantly when there's a minor little thing, you won't shut down automatically. But if it rises to a really heavy level,

think about shutting it down, walking away from it, and then getting back to it so that you can be ultra effective in that environment. Maggie, what do you think?

Maggie (28:44.656)
Ooh, yeah, I like that Bill, that's really good. I kind of do it from a similar perspective, but what I talk about a lot and try to help my clients understand is about the greater good.

So what happens with a lot of potential conflict is it's because I want my role, my position, my idea to take the seat of authority. And what Harmony can do and the people naturally gifted with Harmony can sense other perspectives. That's why they bring peace.

Sarah Collins (29:20.603)
Mm-hmm.

Maggie (29:20.878)
And so I bring peace because I'm seeing Bill's saying this and Sarah's saying that, and I'm looking at the room. So this is part, for those of you who have harmony, this is the place you raise your hand and you start creating that bond between the two ideas, between the two people and saying, do you hear what Sarah's saying or do you hear what Bill is saying? And then we might even practice, say back.

you said this, what did you hear? So it's really, I, I, it sounds like as I'm saying this out loud is also bringing in communication, but that's harmony is really going to be the person that creates that bridge.

Sarah Collins (29:58.674)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (30:06.022)
Yeah, I love that. And what you said is so close to what I typically say, which is if a leader is struggling with some of these conversations, I will say clear as kind. know, Brene Brown said it first. I'm saying it from her. but it's like, think about

Maggie (30:19.89)
Yes.

Sarah Collins (30:25.478)
what you want for this person that you have to deliver bad news to, or you have to give a hard feedback to. And that can feel really uncomfortable when you have harmony, because you can make people not want, you don't want to hurt people's feelings. And you know, they're trying really hard or you know, they have a lot of hard stuff going on personally, or you just don't like to tell someone bad news or, you know, not glittery things. And it's remembering clear is kind.

Maggie (30:53.682)
.

Sarah Collins (30:53.958)
I give this a spinach analogy a lot of like, I might not want to tell you something because I'm like, well, Maggie take it the right way. Is she going to understand? Is it necessary for me to say? But then I'll tell my clients like, think about if that person. So Maggie here had spinach in her teeth and I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, I don't want to say anything to her because I don't want to embarrass her. Well, that's fine until a bunch of potential clients walk over or her biggest client walks over.

And then all of a sudden now she has spinach in her teeth and she is talking to her biggest client or a bunch of potential clients. And I like haven't told her this and no one is saying anything. And then later she goes to the bathroom and she comes back and she says, Sarah, I had spinach in my teeth the whole time and you did not say one word to me about it. And I talked to my biggest client. Like now I am mad at you. Like you're my friend. Why didn't you do that? That is what I like the visualization. I like to give clients with harmony about these things of like,

Sometimes it is better to say the hard thing to the person who trusts you, that you have the relationship with, where you can help them so then they're not going out in the world doing these things because that outcome for them could be much worse than the hard conversation of just saying, hey, you got a little spinach in your teeth.

Bill Dippel (32:11.932)
Yeah. And I think exposure to the idea of either scrum or rumble coaching, the idea around where can we step into a scrum and we can agree or at least have some forward progress in it. I do find sometimes that running that sort of workshop for some of the people I have with High Harmony allows them to be able to shift it more accurately and a little more effectively, right? As we know,

a theme becomes a strength if we invest in it. Time, effort, coaching, knowledge. And if I can get you to think of Scrum from a point of view of from a harmony point of view, hey, it's hard to put our heads against each other and try to push each other off the field. However, if I can do it repetitively and I know, hey, we actually are achieving something by doing this, Sarah, directly to your point, plead into it again, your your

Buffalo analogy for me comes right to my mind. So yeah, I agree with that.

Sarah Collins (33:11.762)
Hmm?

Maggie (33:12.914)
Thank

Sarah Collins (33:14.269)
Yeah. So for the people who haven't heard that before, what I will say is cat, you know, I'm in Nebraska, so we got cattle here. Cattle, when a storm is coming, will try to outrun it, right? The storm is coming and they're like, got to get out of here. But inevitably, a lot of times the storm is right on their back the whole time. That is the raw version of harmony and conflict. You want to run away from the storm, but it's just on you. And like Maggie was talking about earlier,

You can feel that misalignment and that discontentment in your body. doesn't feel good. I always say it's heavy on my shoulders when I know there is some unresolved conflict there that I am just avoiding because I want peace over clarity. Whereas bison intuitively will go into a storm. They'll go straight into it because they know they'll get through it faster if they go right into it. So yes, they're going to hit the brunt of the storm.

but they're gonna get out of it they're gonna truly be out of it, cause the storm keeps moving. That to me is the version of mature harmony. You need to know what conflict to get into. That doesn't mean you get into it all, cause you're gonna be able to mastermind your way around a lot of it. But when it is necessary, you're going to have to go straight into it to get out of it. And then you're gonna feel so much lighter. You're gonna feel clarity. You're gonna feel very accomplished. And if...

Some of the best leaders I know have high harmony and they have mastered this, ooh, chef's kiss. They have no issues with conflict. In fact, they are masters at navigating conflict because they have that high harmony and they can so effortlessly go into it and get through it and not hurt anyone along the way.

Maggie (34:42.244)
Mm-hmm.

Maggie (34:58.608)
You have to remember it's a relationship theme. And if it's not building the relationship, it's tearing it down.

Sarah Collins (35:05.778)
Ooh, so well said. Now I have just a thought question for you all. It popped into my head. I'm just curious from, we've got three harmonies on this call, right? I don't want to talk about politics, but do you think that is a common thread for people with high harmony? Because I feel like politics can be very dividing.

Bill Dippel (35:18.054)
Yes.

Sarah Collins (35:33.395)
especially in our country, like it's very divisive to talk about politics. I find myself, and I think this is my harmony, going, I self-select out of this conversation. And in fact, I stay quite uninformed, which I know people could say bad things about as well, but I think my harmony gets so rattled that people in our nation are so divided. I see so often a little bit of both sides. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. I talk to someone else, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense too. And so I'm like,

Maggie (36:02.62)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (36:03.09)
I don't really know what I believe to be honest because it's very confusing out here. And then everyone is mad and they'll be like, you can see that person's side or you, you know, and I feel like people are so at each other that I feel like it's my harmony. That's like, I just like sink back into the wall. I am just curious from your perspectives. Do you think that is a harmony thing that is common or is that just a

Bill Dippel (36:29.85)
Maggie, what do think?

Maggie (36:31.674)
No, like as you were explaining that, that's 100%. I think that is a harmony thing because I don't want to talk. I mean, it is so divisive, but if we use our harmony the right way though, I like that. Well, I can see this person's side and I can see that person's side. Maybe if we had more harmony in the governmental structure, we'd have more consensus and less conflict.

Sarah Collins (36:57.404)
Wow, you made me just feel total shame, because as you were saying that, it was so clearly illuminated to me like, maybe you should be a buffalo in this situation, Sarah. you like people with high harmony could be the not that it should be me, but like the saviors of the system to be like, no, no, no, here, let me articulate both sides and a solution. I think you're right. I think it's the harmony folks that could save us. But I'm in the raw side of my harmony with this. So I'm just like, excuse me, I'm exiting the room.

Bill Dippel (37:27.45)
So good. And we talked about this previous episode a little bit. And since Harmony is in the relationship domain, the number of people that are looking for more relationship, let's say blue-driven leadership, and that came up very recently in a previous episode, I think that's exactly lending to the question that you're asking right now.

Sarah Collins (37:46.001)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (37:54.01)
political side or for the leaders in the world, could we just get more identity around understanding the feelings and the ideas of what we're actually doing to people when we're doing specifically whatever politics is, and whatever side. I'm not taking a side here. And can we very definitively understand and know what's happening? How will this affect

Sarah Collins (38:14.12)
Right.

Bill Dippel (38:21.915)
a large number of people and I do think that gets overlooked from a political point of view right now where I want to affect a very narrow band of people and I'm going to I'm going to do that right now, which officially I think is almost what politics is. I think as as people in this country, we force our politicians to lie to us. And I think that's a

Sarah Collins (38:48.775)
Yeah.

Bill Dippel (38:49.562)
pretty, I know it's a kind of a blanket statement, but inevitably they have to go from event to event to event and make promises that to be honest are different from each other. There's no chance they can keep that. And if they don't do that, they won't get elected. So right out of the gate, we are almost demanding that our politicians lie to us to get to the position where now they almost have to let us down.

Sarah Collins (39:05.267)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (39:15.569)
Yeah, you.

Maggie (39:15.716)
Okay, then we bring responsibility into the public's, the political systems because they would feel horrible if they weren't talking the truth.

Bill Dippel (39:25.689)
Completely true. Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Collins (39:28.123)
Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting, Bill, like as you were talking, I was thinking, yes, that harmony and that empathy from our last episode of thinking about even if a politician had to make a decision that wasn't not everyone was going to like, which literally is every decision, every decision you make, there's going to be people who support it and people who don't.

And even if they did that and they said, listen, I see and hear the people who don't support this and they just recognized it. That's what we talked about in our empathy episode, like just recognizing and validating the feelings. So if the politicians could just say, Hey, I see and hear these people, but this is the decision we're making and why we're making it. think people would also feel better, but Bill, to your point, I think the PR and marketing people of those people would say, don't say that. Don't recognize them. Like we're not giving them any, you know, center stage.

It has become so competitive that it feels like it's hurting us more than anything. And it's too bad to see. And I have nothing else to say about politics except it makes me sad. I wish it was different. Someone change the subject.

Bill Dippel (40:32.707)
Right.

Perfect. No, I, I, again, the harmony, the hard questions as they're coming around politics, I think as you've brought up as an obvious choice in that. And we've kind of hit a little bit on the C-suite too and management and, and ownership and where those people might step in and have this. Maggie, do you have a, do you have any specific instances where you thought

man, Harmony did not answer that question well. Or they stepped away from the situation. You brought up a brilliant one with your own husband. That's pretty fascinating and a really good take on it. But in your coaching business from a client point of view, if we're talking to our arsonists and our clients, is there one that comes to mind for you that really stood out?

Maggie (41:11.122)
you

Maggie (41:22.768)
Well, I'm trying to think. can think of one off the top of my head as far as in my coaching practice and coaching where harmony just didn't follow through, but I could use it in a young mother who is high in harmony and she has children, three of them. I'm trying to be very like generic. And, it's my daughter and.

Bill Dippel (41:44.162)
Smart, very nice.

Sarah Collins (41:48.647)
I was gonna say, it me? Because you're also describing me, your soon to be adopted daughter, but okay, no, your actual daughter.

Bill Dippel (41:52.396)
The new daughter. Yes.

Maggie (41:54.973)
But she had, now she has three children, but when she had her second child, she hates conflict. And we've said this about her even before she ever took the strength assessment. And when it came up harmony, it just were like, yes, of course. Her third baby did not sleep through the, or her second baby did not sleep through the night until he was three. Because every time he cried, she'd give in. Cause she doesn't like conflict.

Sarah Collins (42:18.489)
Sarah Collins (42:22.563)
my gosh. Right, she was like, too much resistance.

Maggie (42:25.592)
And, and you would try to like, but if you would invest in the sleep training, know, blah, blah, blah. So that was the only thing that really did come to mind. It's like Harmony was not, Harmony was not in its mature state. And it wasn't now her third baby. It's a whole different story. Things have changed.

Bill Dippel (42:25.9)
Wow.

Sarah Collins (42:48.179)
Yes, well, also because of her sanity, she needs sleep, know, three kids is no joke. It really makes me think and I'm curious if you all agree with this. Now we talked about every single strength, all 34, they have the mature side and the raw side, right? When we invest in them and we work on them, we get sort of the balcony, if you will, of that strength, the firework moments. And when they, you know, we haven't invested in them or we're just having a bad day or whatever, we get like the dumpster fire of the strength.

Maggie (42:53.522)
You

Sarah Collins (43:18.247)
I think from all the coaching I've done, Harmony is one of the most important ones to invest in to get the mature side. I mean, again, they all have the good and the bad. I just see like the good helping people so much in their personal and professional lives. And I see Harmony when not invested in coming out raw being very detrimental to people. Would you agree with that?

Maggie (43:48.05)
I agree with that, but equally as much empathy.

Sarah Collins (43:50.981)
I was literally just going to say and also empathy. Empathy is the exact same. I put them in the same bucket of great power, great responsibility. If you don't invest in...

Bill Dippel (43:59.512)
Ha ha ha ha.

Bill Dippel (44:03.64)
I'm echoing that empathy. It sounds almost purely like empathy for me when you say it. Very, very in the empathy side. I think we can, even as coaches, but particularly as clients, we may blend harmony and empathy frequently, right? They may come across and feel almost the same to us. There's a more subtle distinction, I think, between those two themes.

Sarah Collins (44:09.947)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (44:32.13)
than many of the others. And I think we know from a coaching point of view, some of them absolutely come across as very, very similar. I'm thinking self-assurance and significance might feel like they blend together a lot. We know that a couple of the domains are more external facing, a couple of them are more internal facing. But when I look at empathy and harmony and I see them together,

Maggie (44:44.338)
in the center.

Bill Dippel (44:57.719)
Like they are in mind. I mean they're literally six and seven in my particular theme. They play off each other. Sometimes I don't even know that they aren't completely interchangeable for situations where I don't want to get into an argument and I also understand the emotion around why getting into the argument is going to be really painful. And so, and like you Maggie, I will then become, I was short-sighted.

I was definitely short-sighted in thinking about that. I needed to get that out of the way and handle that. So, Maggie, good on you for breaking that code early on, because I think I'm still going to suffer from it for quite some time.

Sarah Collins (45:39.888)
Yeah, I see though how you could say if you have both empathy and harmony, how they would just like theme dynamics piggyback off each other like crazy to create a superpower, but then also like, again, like a super barrier potentially too. I'd be interested.

Bill Dippel (45:48.278)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (45:53.855)
Yeah, yeah, as I talk about it, I think I'm a big raw nerve walking around.

Sarah Collins (46:00.211)
Yeah, well, which is great and why you can make quick relationships deeply fast. You know, it serves you in so many ways as that relationship superpower. I'm curious to hear from Maggie as a coach who has high harmony, but your empathy is like middle of the pack, 21. How do you see them separate? Because, you know, we heard Bill bring them together, which totally makes sense for someone with both of those. How do you see them play out?

Maggie (46:01.094)
Aww.

Bill Dippel (46:08.47)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (46:27.824)
differently or what do you see the differences between that harmony and that empathy?

Maggie (46:32.451)
Well Harmony, like Bill said, he's a walking exposed nerd. Is that what you said? You can be. Okay. Sorry.

Bill Dippel (46:38.068)
Well, I can be right. I and I will guarantee you for for probably a decade. I absolutely was right, especially coming out of college, coming into young adulthood. I was a big raw walking nerve. You know, what was positive was positive, was negative, was negative. Everything was black and white. So I've had to work hard to dump and change that philosophy. So, Maggie, yes, I will. I will resonate that I absolutely was. And I still can be.

Sarah Collins (46:40.774)
Mm-hmm.

Bill Dippel (47:06.89)
but I'm better at spotting it and short circuiting it.

Maggie (47:10.682)
Yeah. So Harmony, mean, empathy feels you ever sense, you can feel the room. Harmony, can sense thing, but I don't like own other people's emotions. Whereas somebody high in empathy will like take responsibility for that emotion. And so I actually, I right before this call was coaching a client who's high in harmony and I gave him one of my maybe isms.

Sarah Collins (47:22.928)
Yeah

Sarah Collins (47:29.906)
Mmm.

Maggie (47:39.386)
I said, feelings are real, but they're not always true.

Sarah Collins (47:44.422)
Yes, okay, love it.

Bill Dippel (47:45.75)
I like my Maggie-isms. This is good. Yes, go on.

Maggie (47:48.403)
That's one of many. I've got, mean, but that's the thing. It's like, feelings are real. So don't, don't disregard your feelings. They're real. But as Sarah, say it and I say it too, what's the second story? Because they're not always true.

Sarah Collins (48:06.739)
Right. I love that because it's validating what you feel, but knowing that like your feelings can lie to you. Right. Because just because you were hurt by what that person said doesn't mean they intended to hurt you. And, and it's being able to separate that. And I love that distinction. Also the way you talked about how

Maggie (48:14.427)
Mm-hmm.

Maggie (48:22.407)
Break.

Sarah Collins (48:29.605)
Empathy takes responsibilities for a lot of the feelings and I think self imposes the feelings onto themselves. That's why our empathy folks can sometimes have trouble distinguishing between what is my feeling? What is other people's feelings? How do I even feel about this? Actually, how do I feel? And that harmony can see the differences, but is not necessarily owning them or putting it onto the person. It can just sort of sense, okay, you're saying this and you're saying this.

Maggie (48:48.562)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Collins (48:57.487)
It's really navigating relationships in a different way where empathy is putting on the relationships.

Maggie (49:05.36)
Yeah, because I read people, I can read people really well. I would even be as bold to say that I have like a 90 % spot on, I can tell like how someone is and that's cause I can sense them. but empathy on the others. So you don't want to lose that, that harmony does have that sense, but there's this barrier between like,

Sarah Collins (49:18.963)
Mmm.

Maggie (49:32.174)
ownership or responsibility or taking them on. You just read them.

Sarah Collins (49:38.878)
So if we want to put this in a nice little package for our audience, what do you say to a leader or a person out there who has high harmony and really does struggle in hard conversations? We already, I think, have gotten to the point that you can have hard conversations as high harmony, and you should be. But if I am out here with it and I am struggling, I am just running from all these hard conversations, what is the best advice that you have for them?

Maggie (49:55.729)
Mm-hmm.

Maggie (50:05.296)
Well, I would ask them a question. How important is it for you to succeed? And what is your, I mean, it's the bottom line. We have to get over ourselves. And I know I'm uncomfortable, but what is for the greater good?

And if I'm going to be a leader of a company, I have to think out what is best for the company, what is for the greater good, and that is going to be those difficult conversations.

Sarah Collins (50:35.677)
Damn girl, that is a good answer.

Bill Dippel (50:38.441)
That's a great answer. Maggie, Maggie, will you adopt me? Is that at all possible? Or I don't know. just that's it would be different. So I agree. your husband would be like, we're adopting what? How is that happening? So well, Maggie, a fantastic answer leading into the next question I'm going to ask you. OK, so as a.

Sarah Collins (50:44.947)
think it would look different.

Maggie (50:47.918)
I'm going to go to

Maggie (50:53.467)
It's okay.

Bill Dippel (51:02.321)
Strengths based coach we asked this we actually asked us of all of our guests So i'm curious where your answer is going to be here when the fireworks are going off and you're firing on all cylinders When the good stuff is happening when you feel you're in the flow What themes are at play for you? Which ones do you think most commonly contribute to you being? Just in that perfect production zone

Maggie (51:25.146)
Yeah. positivity, Includer, communication, responsibility. mean, I developer. I love developer when developer and Includer and positivity are just humming along. I'm including people. I'm connecting with people and I'm making them all feel good about themselves.

Sarah Collins (51:51.043)
my gosh, you should be a facilitator and coach. You sound perfect for the job.

Bill Dippel (51:55.441)
Yeah, you should really consider this. Get some certification. Go have fun with it. Yeah. And I want to echo that. My developer, I've told past employers, you want to know everything there is about me and listen to developer on the podcast that Gallup put out season five. I was always a season five fan of the theme Thursdays. And I just I agree. I when my developer is flowing and I see people getting better because I'm helping. That's that's what really

Sarah Collins (51:58.675)
Yes!

Maggie (51:59.195)
I'm afraid about it.

Bill Dippel (52:23.633)
motivates me, really pushes me. But I also have times when instead of being in the firework, I step into my own dumpster fire. I have done something crazy. I'm leading in and none of that flow is happening. I'm having a, it's all gone down. It's just a dumpster fire in my life. What themes for you do you think play out most frequently when you stepped on the landmine or you're in the dumpster fire?

Maggie (52:50.306)
100 % communication and activator. I speak before I think.

Bill Dippel (52:54.196)
Sarah Collins (52:56.787)
Ugh, relatable. So relatable!

Bill Dippel (52:57.853)
Hahaha

Ha ha ha.

Maggie (53:02.322)
And then it's like, oh shoot.

Sarah Collins (53:05.103)
Insert foot and mouth!

Bill Dippel (53:08.006)
I'd love. I love it. I love it. So.

Sarah Collins (53:09.304)
and I unconnected myself.

Maggie (53:10.962)
Do you want to know another Maggieism?

Bill Dippel (53:13.787)
I'm ready, hit me with a mag-e-ism.

Maggie (53:16.474)
I say half as much as I want and twice as nice.

Bill Dippel (53:20.787)
That is a really good way to say that. That is so I say half as much as I want and twice as nice. Is that how that went? That is a that is a fantastic Maggie ism. All right. Since the two you gave us were so darn good. Give me one more Maggie ism. I am ready.

Maggie (53:29.874)
Yep.

Maggie (53:43.091)
Um, so I did, the feelings are real, but they're not really true. Say half as much as you want and twice as nice. And I'm trying to think of another one. I don't know. They just pop into my head. Oh, I know when, when you are trying to control people, that means you are sitting on the throne of authority that you don't belong.

Bill Dippel (53:56.209)
They really do. I'm ready.

Bill Dippel (54:02.311)
Yes.

Bill Dippel (54:09.511)
Well, well, well said. Sarah, the Maggie isms are just going off today. It's really good. Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (54:15.157)
my God, I'm so happy. I'm so sorry. I was trying to be funny and creative and here I am just, you know.

Maggie (54:15.954)
Thank

Bill Dippel (54:21.499)
No, only our YouTube people would have seen your foot coming to your mouth. I thought it was brilliantly done. So really, really nice. Well, Maggie, thank you so, so much for being on the show. The Maggie isms are going in. I'm stealing as many as I can and putting them together. Yeah, they are absolutely perfect. And Maggie Rockstar guest today. Thank you very much for coming.

Maggie (54:25.938)
Can we just tell them?

Sarah Collins (54:39.675)
Yeah, put them in the Strengths on Fire Hall of Fame.

Maggie (54:43.25)
you

Bill Dippel (54:49.042)
Thank you for adopting Sarah. I think a little more guidance because all that talk about having difficult and mean conversations, Sarah and I are going to work on that together because we beat each other up a lot on the podcast. we're going to sort that out. maybe I don't know. I think we should have Maggie be a moderator for us. Yeah, come on in and point us in the right direction. So awesome.

Maggie (54:49.138)
Well, thank you.

Maggie (54:57.554)
Thank

Sarah Collins (55:04.989)
So are we gonna try to do more of it or less of it? I don't know what you're saying.

tortures.

Bill Dippel (55:16.806)
So well, Maggie, thank you again for being on it and bringing your Maggie isms, but also all of the wealth of knowledge you bring as a coach.

Maggie (55:23.964)
Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Sarah. This was awesome.

Bill Dippel (55:26.882)
I love having talented, fun, upbeat people on the podcast, Sarah. It's just always fun. And with that, we are absolutely grateful everyone is here. Thank you for coming. Thank you to our arsonists, and we will talk soon.

Sarah Collins (55:41.235)
Bye!